which ecu?????????
Wadad:That's true, but it seems the only problem is a lack of support and venture on the part of the competitor. Rob had a reflash done, gave someone one for free, had it dynoed and then posted numbers so we would know it worked. If DRC was only able to put out the cash to test a Jet Chip on his own and posted some numbers, I'm sure business would have taken off for both him and the Lancer Jet Chip. Unfortunately, Dustin was really an average Joe trying to start up a tuning shop, so he didn't really have the resources or funds to do testing like he would have liked to. So as you say, to the victors go the spoils, since most people are just sheep anyway right? He who can afford testing and research, gets to rake in the dough afterwards.
Andrew, I agree that it would be nice to have more people just venturing out into new products and risking everything in the name of research (like you have done, as well as Billy and others) but if my car sees any down time at all, I'm out of a job and missing class. That's the whole reason I sold my Trans Am to buy a Lancer (Lord knows the TA was faster, but only when it was running
). I assume most of the members of this forum are in a similar situation, so most of them can't afford to buy something that hasn't been tested yet... come to think of it, some people do that anyway. Ah well, my Lancer hasn't failed to get me to work yet.
And just to clarify, I don't think any of us have claimed one product to be better. We've just said that we don't know enough about the alternative product (which implies that we do not have enough information to make a judgement), and that since we don't have any information on the Jet Chip, we'd be more comfortable with the RRM piggyback. That in no way implies which product is better.
Andrew, I agree that it would be nice to have more people just venturing out into new products and risking everything in the name of research (like you have done, as well as Billy and others) but if my car sees any down time at all, I'm out of a job and missing class. That's the whole reason I sold my Trans Am to buy a Lancer (Lord knows the TA was faster, but only when it was running
). I assume most of the members of this forum are in a similar situation, so most of them can't afford to buy something that hasn't been tested yet... come to think of it, some people do that anyway. Ah well, my Lancer hasn't failed to get me to work yet.And just to clarify, I don't think any of us have claimed one product to be better. We've just said that we don't know enough about the alternative product (which implies that we do not have enough information to make a judgement), and that since we don't have any information on the Jet Chip, we'd be more comfortable with the RRM piggyback. That in no way implies which product is better.
Last edited by urbanknight; Dec 17, 2004 at 03:35 AM.
Originally Posted by urbanknight
Rob had a reflash done, gave someone one for free, had it dynoed and then posted numbers so we would know it worked.
B) When was DRC selling the Jet Chip? I missed that too!
Ok Urban
Sorry to take this a little OT but by your reasoning people are more comfortable buying things that have been "tested" but in this same forum we have people signing up to buy High comp. pistons which have not been tested. WHy are they doing this? and at a high cost too. Is it because of the name or the reputation of the dealer? Or is it the quality of the product.
I think it's the latter. "Because so and so is selling these they must be good."
That does not fly with me.
Anyway that's enough ranting from me. I'm just upset that I see a trend where brainwashed people are brainwashing the newcomers. There is very little objective info in the lancer forums. Were it not for a few technically gifted people trying to find alternatives there would really be only one option to purchase Lancer parts on here. That is not good for us the customers that drive the business in the first place.
WADAD
Sorry to take this a little OT but by your reasoning people are more comfortable buying things that have been "tested" but in this same forum we have people signing up to buy High comp. pistons which have not been tested. WHy are they doing this? and at a high cost too. Is it because of the name or the reputation of the dealer? Or is it the quality of the product.
I think it's the latter. "Because so and so is selling these they must be good."
That does not fly with me.
Anyway that's enough ranting from me. I'm just upset that I see a trend where brainwashed people are brainwashing the newcomers. There is very little objective info in the lancer forums. Were it not for a few technically gifted people trying to find alternatives there would really be only one option to purchase Lancer parts on here. That is not good for us the customers that drive the business in the first place.
WADAD
In response, with all due respect, I say that you are wrong Wadad.
I am not buying the pistons because RRM is offering them. I understand the basic idea of CR=HP. The major thing that convinced me to buy them is Boe. For right or wrong, I trust his opinion on things and believe what the man says.
RRM had nothing to do with it. If some little fly-by-night company offered them and Boe said it sounded good, I'd go for it. Call me a sheep if you will.
(Hell, call me a black sheep! )
I am not buying the pistons because RRM is offering them. I understand the basic idea of CR=HP. The major thing that convinced me to buy them is Boe. For right or wrong, I trust his opinion on things and believe what the man says.
RRM had nothing to do with it. If some little fly-by-night company offered them and Boe said it sounded good, I'd go for it. Call me a sheep if you will.
(Hell, call me a black sheep!
)
Last edited by Blacksheepdj; Dec 17, 2004 at 08:03 AM.
Originally Posted by WADADLIG_OZ
Who is BOE closely affiliated with?
I knew that was coming! Regardless. Since there are 4 of us buying the pistons and Boe is one of the four, it makes me feel a million times safer.
But I totally understand your point.
And we should stop whoring this thread now. Talk to ya in PM!
Originally Posted by WADADLIG_OZ
Ok Urban
Sorry to take this a little OT but by your reasoning people are more comfortable buying things that have been "tested" but in this same forum we have people signing up to buy High comp. pistons which have not been tested. WHy are they doing this? and at a high cost too. Is it because of the name or the reputation of the dealer? Or is it the quality of the product.
I think it's the latter. "Because so and so is selling these they must be good."
That does not fly with me.
Anyway that's enough ranting from me. I'm just upset that I see a trend where brainwashed people are brainwashing the newcomers. There is very little objective info in the lancer forums. Were it not for a few technically gifted people trying to find alternatives there would really be only one option to purchase Lancer parts on here. That is not good for us the customers that drive the business in the first place.
WADAD
Sorry to take this a little OT but by your reasoning people are more comfortable buying things that have been "tested" but in this same forum we have people signing up to buy High comp. pistons which have not been tested. WHy are they doing this? and at a high cost too. Is it because of the name or the reputation of the dealer? Or is it the quality of the product.
I think it's the latter. "Because so and so is selling these they must be good."
That does not fly with me.
Anyway that's enough ranting from me. I'm just upset that I see a trend where brainwashed people are brainwashing the newcomers. There is very little objective info in the lancer forums. Were it not for a few technically gifted people trying to find alternatives there would really be only one option to purchase Lancer parts on here. That is not good for us the customers that drive the business in the first place.
WADAD
Originally Posted by pgmike
well said my friend, my feeligns and thoughts exactly. maybe one of the reasons i am going on some unbeaten paths and on some rarely beatne ones.
im going to be jumping in and trying to tune with the emanage soon, im doing a lot of homework for it right now. btw did you ever get those maps from kontra? i think it was you that asked for them? id like to see some from anybody that has used it so i know what i have to work off.
recently just bought a couple 4g93 parts and will hopefully be fitting them with soem modification doen to them. should give me some decent gains.
recently just bought a couple 4g93 parts and will hopefully be fitting them with soem modification doen to them. should give me some decent gains.
i'm not quite sure at the moment, cuz i haven't read about it in a while, but i believe if you got the pressure sensor to go with the emanage, the emanage can clamp the rpm voltage eliminating the rpm limit and adjust for fuel with the pressure sensor. i could be wrong, but it was something that crossed my mind.
Evolved Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,167
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From: TB, FL
Jet Chip . . . I'm not totally convinced of them. Two miragers claimed to have one, but I never seen them up close on their car.
Of course, my brother had one for his modern Envoy. It worked for about 2 wks before the CEL, and things started to retard timing like he was running 87 octane gas. He called them up for like 6 wks for support, and he just gave up on the product. Yes, he took his car to a friend w/ a GM OBD2 reader and pulled the code. Can't remember the code . . . I still have the chip stashed in the garage somewhere.
As for the pricing, I'm not going to badmouth any product. Companies have to understand the demographics of their buyers. Miragers are a poor lot as a whole. Lancer guys maybe be just a step up, but they are nowhere near spending money as the H&A guys, DSM'ers, Supra owners, or diehard minitruckers spending money for 2-4 inch body drop. I know companies like JWT (Jim Wolfe Technology) with the Nissan folks and few other companies tuning ECU for SI's or ITR . . . they pay for premium prices. I just don't understand pharmaceutical-like pricing to offset R&D. It's supply and demand. If the price are reasonable enough, the demand will be there.
Example:
1) are you going to buy Eddie Bauer underwear - 2 for 100 bucks in a pack
or
2) just get a damn Fruit of the loom for far less.
Guess who going to sell more . . . sure, FTL underwaer won't have silk stitching or some exotic material.
Or
3) +35 grand for a modern VW beetle . . . this happened in cali when the beetle was first introduced in the US market. Ya, ya, it was dealership greed.
Of course, my brother had one for his modern Envoy. It worked for about 2 wks before the CEL, and things started to retard timing like he was running 87 octane gas. He called them up for like 6 wks for support, and he just gave up on the product. Yes, he took his car to a friend w/ a GM OBD2 reader and pulled the code. Can't remember the code . . . I still have the chip stashed in the garage somewhere.
As for the pricing, I'm not going to badmouth any product. Companies have to understand the demographics of their buyers. Miragers are a poor lot as a whole. Lancer guys maybe be just a step up, but they are nowhere near spending money as the H&A guys, DSM'ers, Supra owners, or diehard minitruckers spending money for 2-4 inch body drop. I know companies like JWT (Jim Wolfe Technology) with the Nissan folks and few other companies tuning ECU for SI's or ITR . . . they pay for premium prices. I just don't understand pharmaceutical-like pricing to offset R&D. It's supply and demand. If the price are reasonable enough, the demand will be there.
Example:
1) are you going to buy Eddie Bauer underwear - 2 for 100 bucks in a pack
or
2) just get a damn Fruit of the loom for far less.
Guess who going to sell more . . . sure, FTL underwaer won't have silk stitching or some exotic material.
Or
3) +35 grand for a modern VW beetle . . . this happened in cali when the beetle was first introduced in the US market. Ya, ya, it was dealership greed.
I am actually offended by you calling me brainwashed. I have no obligations to RRM. We have no contracts, I feel free to buy from their competitors. Not only that, but Rob is ok when I buy from his competitor, maybe a little ribbing about it, but he knows business is business. But why would I recommend a product I know nothing about? This guy was asking for ADVICE, and I just told him what I would do based on MY EXPERIENCE. If someone has an experience with the Jet Chip, they should feel free to post their opinion too, but I who has NEVER SEEN ONE would have no business goig around saying "You should definitely get the Jet Chip, because RRM charges too much for their products. I have had no problem buying from Vivid Racing, DRC Imports, Options Auto, etc. when they had better prices or in stock items, and if I had a personal opinion on the Jet Chip I'd give that too. You know, "I would if could but I can't so I won't."
If someone wanted Mexican food, would you recommend Del Taco or Tom's Taco Tavern which you've never eaten at? I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want to recommend a place I don't know about, with the possibility of a friend coming back to me after a bad meal asking me why I recommended it.
And one more thing, just because I have to say it. The members of this board seem to want more more more and pay less less less. If I was a tuner and people were saying "please make this mod for our lancer but I refuse to pay more than $X for it" I'd be like screw that, where's the profit? The Lancer is a much smaller market, so you gotta expect higher prices. I'm not saying that RRM has fair prices, I don't even know what his bottom line is and I wouldn't even try to guess. But if you guys wanted a car thats cheap to mod, you should have bought a Civic.
As for those buying brand new pistons, they (hopefully) know the risks and are willing to take them. I have always been extra cautious compared to other members, as I can't afford to have a broken car. I respect pioneers greatly and thank them infinitely for their opinion, as I am not one of them.
I conclusion, I don't feel like RRM is God, and if I felt someone else made a better product or a better deal on a product, I would say so (as proof, I think you can get brake discs elsewhere for much less, I don't like Toyo R compound tires, and I think almost all of those grills are ugly) but my honest opinion on the ECU is that the reflash was a good product and I would rather pay $500 for that than $400 for the Jet Chip, even if RRM sold the Jet Chip right now. Now everybody quit your whining, take all opinions with a grain of salt and make your own decisions.
If someone wanted Mexican food, would you recommend Del Taco or Tom's Taco Tavern which you've never eaten at? I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want to recommend a place I don't know about, with the possibility of a friend coming back to me after a bad meal asking me why I recommended it.
And one more thing, just because I have to say it. The members of this board seem to want more more more and pay less less less. If I was a tuner and people were saying "please make this mod for our lancer but I refuse to pay more than $X for it" I'd be like screw that, where's the profit? The Lancer is a much smaller market, so you gotta expect higher prices. I'm not saying that RRM has fair prices, I don't even know what his bottom line is and I wouldn't even try to guess. But if you guys wanted a car thats cheap to mod, you should have bought a Civic.
As for those buying brand new pistons, they (hopefully) know the risks and are willing to take them. I have always been extra cautious compared to other members, as I can't afford to have a broken car. I respect pioneers greatly and thank them infinitely for their opinion, as I am not one of them.
I conclusion, I don't feel like RRM is God, and if I felt someone else made a better product or a better deal on a product, I would say so (as proof, I think you can get brake discs elsewhere for much less, I don't like Toyo R compound tires, and I think almost all of those grills are ugly) but my honest opinion on the ECU is that the reflash was a good product and I would rather pay $500 for that than $400 for the Jet Chip, even if RRM sold the Jet Chip right now. Now everybody quit your whining, take all opinions with a grain of salt and make your own decisions.
Originally Posted by pgmike
im going to be jumping in and trying to tune with the emanage soon, im doing a lot of homework for it right now. btw did you ever get those maps from kontra? i think it was you that asked for them? id like to see some from anybody that has used it so i know what i have to work off.
recently just bought a couple 4g93 parts and will hopefully be fitting them with soem modification doen to them. should give me some decent gains.
recently just bought a couple 4g93 parts and will hopefully be fitting them with soem modification doen to them. should give me some decent gains.
but im in the same boat as you... will be buyin in early 2005 with wideband, and egt to tune... hopefully we can help each other out. 