agree with shingen completely in his statement.

 

Honestly, I just feel like Fox doesn't want to hear anything but positive. And it's not all positive.

Nick and I had much the same experiences with our Lancers. We know enough to say that people should do what they love, whether it's an NA or turbo buildup. But we also know enough to tell people the god damn truth.

For example, I was very happy with the axleback on my 02. But I won't hesitate for a second to tell someone that it didn't make any damn power.

For the 4 years I've been on EvoM, I've seen nothing but stupidity and lies. I fell into it 100%. I still do, quite a bit. Even now, when I have no money, I have to stop myself from buying the next great power modification.

Everyone sits on their *** and bench races. Everyone blindly believes the claims of they see on the board. We hear over and over how a part will make X amount of HP. Then we see a dyno result that shows that a car with EVERY modification possible didn't make that much HP. We hear claims that a modification will add X% of HP. Again, it turns out to be a lie.

Someone has to be enough of a man to tell the truth. 90% of what you see on EvoM is just crap that someone heard and is recycling. The people that go out and do the testing just get sh*t on. Nick and I are sick of being told our dyno results must be wrong because someone is sure that those mods will add 19whp but we only got 5whp.

This was long and rambling, but the ideas are the key. Maybe people like Fox don't like hearing the truth, but that will never stop me from saying the truth.

I have no hard feelings against Fox or anyone else. But I'm old enough to be tired of the crap. I try my best to give people good advice. I don't tell them what I think they should do, I tell them what I think will work best. Sometimes it's what they want to hear. Sometimes not.

 

A lot of members do think of modding the lancer like its modding any other car which in fact its not. As you have pointed out. n/a power is pointless. Only way to make power is FI and n/a mods only help you spool faster, run more boost and help the engine basically run smoother.

I know it gets annoying explaining this exact same thing to member after member but until people start searching we have to.... As long as we wanna be apart of the board. I dont think Fox is saying to only give positives but a thread doesnt have to turn into a "bash lancer" thread everytime a power subject is brought up. Like the last thread did. Its one thing to give links to ambys dyno thread so people can see for themselves but to completely smash the idea of adding power to the lancer isnt what we are hear to do. Because the Lancer can make power if done correctly.

mabey this sounded like rambling. lmao. im sick and on nyquil. bah

 

+80 ****ing billion. I hate when people say "oh you're being too negative" or "don't bring us down" and other similar BS. There are times when I miss my lancer just because of the community but at times I'm amazed at how naive and ignorant people are and it seems to be self imposed. They believe anything a vendor tells them simply because the vendor says "we're all you got so either buy it or get stuffed". I try to take the same stance as Doug, when people ask questions I try to ask it but I also tend to add a bit more of a sarcasm and jackassery since that's what I do. I also try to wave off this general air of idiocy present in evom at times but I have a feeling I'm fighting an uphill battle. People will only believe what they want to believe, you can provide them with logical arguments, dyno sheets and repeated results but if they think an intake will add 5 whp they'll act like their intake added 5 whp.

 

What is the point of this thread? To argue?

Thats what it looks like.

 

The truth is fine. In fact in a post just recently in the Lancer Engine Tech forum someone talked about his new exhaust giving him more power and giving him better MPG... the fact is that's a lie. I am perfectly willing and happy to hear facts. But show me some.

The problem I have is when you dog on the car and the people who mod this car. And I find that when you do one you do the other in the same broad stroke. They aren't mutually exclusive. When you say, "it's not worth moding this car" You make every Evo basher/hater who comes into these boards who says, "you should have bought an Evo," that much more right.

Both of you are using the same false logic to fuel an argument such as, "X car is better because..." They didn't ask what your X car can do... they asked what we thought about what they could do with the Lancer and if it was worth it.

That's not to say you have to sugar coat things, hell half the time I don't. If they are made aware that the car will not gain any real benifit from bolt on mods until tuned then they can make the choice. But half the time you guys don't do that... you simply trample and point to a dyno run... or a stickied page about your experience. (Again your experience is not reflected by many others who have come before and will come after you)

Truth is that people who complain about bolt on mods not giving X hp don't realize that the largest component when modding is the fuel through the ECU. But you guys don't say that... you say, "the lancer is a weak car..." I echo that and agree... but that's why we mod it! Point them to the Cable thread in the Tuning forums.

You argue against the car... I argue that they should have a plan. Show them a plan, show them the benifits, and show them the pitfalls. But encourage the entire way.

I've been here as long as you guys, driven the same car, wrenched on it just as much or more than, so don't give me a load about how I don't like to hear the truth. It's just plain BS. And as a previous poster pointed out we are arguing the for the same thing. But my arguement also deals with how it is that you argue.

Again, I point to the few who have turned their cars into very unique rides as evidence and proof of the fact that these cars can achieve... You'll never be the fastest but if you set your goals within the paramiters of the capibility of this platform then you can. If you believe otherwise, perhaps its time for you to bow out as mods in a board devoted to the promotion of the Lancer. But you guys are gems... turely knowlegeable in this car. It would be a shame.

Fox

 

I hate to say this, but I will.
Your comments apply more to Nick than to me. I don't ever bag on the Lancer or the owners. I don't blindly say "the Lancer motor is weak." Yes, he can be harsh and even I don't like seeing it (as seen by the fact that we constantly bicker).

But I will flatout tell people if something won't work, etc. I do my "job". I don't sugarcoat, I don't handhold, I don't lie. I moderate and I try to be a Guru (whether folks think I am or not). I promote the Lancer and it's community to the fullest. If you don't appreciate the way that I do it, then that is your choice. But I will be damed if you think I'm going to step down. If a member doesn't like the way I moderate, I'm not going to quit.

Fox, I love you. But you aren't EvoM. You are one man. I get far more compliments than complaints. I won't leave the site that I devoted my life to for you. I bought a god damn 2008 Lancer because I care about this site. Don't ever act like I'm not devoted.

 

Saying "lancers don't respond well to bolt-ons" does not imply anything about the owner, people are reading far too much into the comments and I suspect are projecting their own insecurities onto their car.
If the only reason someone is modding their lancer is bragging rights or outright power, the evo people have a point, they should have started with a better platform. Hell even a civic is a better platform for outright speed than a lancer. This does not mean that people shouldn't mod their lancer, it simply means they should have realistic goals and aspirations. If someone thinks they can just bolt-on a turbo and go out kicking evo and STi's asses, they're stupid. I only know of three cars that can do that and they are all highly modded and two are owned by a shop or people who work for a shop. The average person is not in this kind of situation, for the average person the lancer is their daily driver so they need some degree of reliability and driveability.
This is the key part
They asked for our opinions and asked if modding the lancer was worth it. Inevidably when you ask this kind of question the topic of buying a different car will come up.
Doug and I both had similar experiences with our lancers thus we will say similar things. We have no idea what someone else did to their car nor do we know what kind of dyno conditions they used (if they even dynoed their cars) so you can't honestly expect us to say "well we got crappy results but person Y got good results and we trust them better". We tell people about our experiences, they are free to look at other opinions if they so choose to.
The problem is very few people have a plan, if they did they wouldn't be asking stupid questions like what exhaust is best or whether a BOV is a good idea. It seems like the majority of people haven't done their research and have no desire to. I have no problem helping someone that actually knows what they want out of their lancer but I'm not going to BS someone who doesn't know enough about lancers to make an educated decision. Sometimes it looks like we're arguing against the car, in reality we are arguing against ignorance and naivety. It's great to see people like Omar and Brian pushing the limits, but I've yet to see them look for approval on this forum, they know their **** and they do their thing.

 

Amen.

 

To add to what Doug said, I was/still am devoted to the lancer even though I don't drive one. I would have bought another one if they had one that fit my needs/desires. I have nothing against the lancer I just wish people wouldn't act like they drive a damn Ferrari. When I had my lancer, I understood I was driving a modified economy car and I defended it whenever it was drawn into question. Do I tend to be a bit harsh? Sure I do, but I wish I had someone who was harsh on me when I got my lancer since it would have stopped me from making stupid decisions and it would have pushed me to learn more before I spent tons of money trying to turn my car into something it wasn't going to be. This was just my choice, others are happy with their car and that's great. Unfortunately we get a lot of people who come in here expecting a rocket for very little money and that just doesn't work when there's only a few options out there in terms of aftermarket parts.

 

Also, I wouldn't group Doug and I together all the time, we do disagree quite often. We come from the same general direction though, we like the idea of people modding their cars but only if they understand what they are getting into first. If someone had told me bolt-ons didn't do much, I wouldn't have bought all the bolt-ons I had and I'd have thousands of dollars in my pocket that I could have used to turbo my car from the get go.

 

i like my car

 

hahaha me too. we all do, that's why we want to talk about it so much

 

WOW!!

I would have to say that there are points to both sides. Of course, most bolt-ons don't do much realistically for any car, you get modest gains at best. Are they worth it? That depends on who is doing it and why. Saying that they do nothing is false, they add style or personalize at the least, and you might even get some HP to boot. I am glad that there are more experienced people out there that will tell it like they experienced and not blow smoke. However, I understand that it is THEIR experience, and mine might be different.

So, thank you to everyone that puts out good information for us all. As long as you can back it up... which is what Sheep and Amby are doing. They have been there. Keep in mind that things change, what was true then is not always true now. My 06 is not the same as what they had, not that it is better. So I am content to complete my mods and post what I find.

I am new to this platform and as such research as much as I can before making changes. So I am glad that the information is out there. I also take it with a grain of salt, if there is something I really want to try knowing that there could be serious consiquences.

I also am willing to actually wrench on my car, vice having someone else do it (not that there is anything wrong with it), so I get more satisfaction out of it. In the bike community we had CRAP mods (Cheap Readily Available Parts) that we all were proud of, and copied from others.

my current CRAP mod is changing the look of my grill (the 06 ES grill is nasty looking), which will cost me around $40 when all is said and done.

In the end, I will do some bolt-ons for the time being, but later on I will dig into the motor to prep it for a turbo.

Fun is what its all about.

 

That logic only applies to mufflers and such. If you spend $400 on a ported intake manifold, you're expecting HP. Not style.

Different how? It's still a 4G94 motor. You just don't have a fuel return system like my 02 did. This isn't a matter of times changing. The 4B11 motor in the 2008 Lancer is an example of times changing.

Good to hear!