What do you think of the new strut bars for the lancer that RMR has. I am interested in the front and rear bars. Any info

 

nice but a little bit heavy.

 

holy crap! thanks for the post i didnt notice it till now , as far as what i think they look ok but that whole bolt joining the middle 2gether i dont like i prefer like rrms where its all welded , less flex? but both rear tie strut and sway bar might be good enough for me for autox so i am interested

 

http://www.freedomdesign.com/Merchan...uct_Code=67506

http://www.freedomdesign.com/Merchan...uct_Code=67507

http://www.freedomdesign.com/Merchan...uct_Code=67505

 

adjustable tower bars are no where near as strong as a streight welded bar, they look nice but they dont perform nearly as well. plus the back of the car is plenty stiff there is no need for a rear tower bar, if you have a rear anti-sway bar it will be plenty stiff.

 

Why would anyone want an adjustable strut brace?

 

donno

 

The purpose of a rear strut bar is to control the amount of oversteer/understeer (drifting abilities) a car has. If you decide that the car needs more oversteer, you would want to tighten the rear strut bar and/or rear sway bar (if possible). Inversely, you would loosen the bars to get less oversteer. So it's more for cornering and handling. I do a lot of autocross and road courses, which is exactly why I would like to have an adjustable rear strut bar.

Also, I wouldn't worry about adjustable strut bars being weaker or stronger. As long as they are strong enough to not snap or bend excessively under a horizontal load (and these won't), then they will do just fine.

 

IMO, strut braces offer structual integrity, greater steering response, and reduced loss of negative camber during cornering. All of which leads to greater handling and greater predictability.

I would, however, NOT use my strut brace to dial in or out any amount of oversteering. For the most part, I think roll and under/oversteering should be controlled MOSTLY by spring rate. Sway bars are good for fine tuning, and there's nothing that tire pressure can't fix on the track.

I really do believe that strut braces should be as rigid as they can be, for reasons I stated in the first paragraph.

Then again, suspension tuning also has a lot to do with personal preference. What works for me (or at least, I think works for me you know how that goes) may or may not work for the next person... So, yeah...

 

TypeIII, your first paragraph is right on, perfect explanation. I have to disagree somewhat on the second, because changing spring rate is not very easy. Changing dampening, however, is easy (with the right shocks). But my problem is that even with myu shocks set at level 5 up front and level 16 in the back, I still can not get rid of the push (understeer) at California Speedway. And I have tried every tire pressure combination from 35 to 51, nothing will do. It is perfectly dialed in for Norton or Buttonwillow, though, so it would be nice to be able to set a strut bar to a tight setting for California Speedway, and loosen it up or remove it for other venues. Although my first attempt at gaining the right oversteer will be to reduce the rear camber slightly, then see where I need to go from there.

Sorry, a bit off topic, but yeah that's what works for me. Might not be what works for others. Too bad the Teins grip better in the rear than the front.

 

What sorts of alignments were you running at California Speedway? What kind of speed are we talking about when your front end pushes? If it's an issue only at high speed, have you perhaps considered a different aerodynamics package?

By allowing more chassis flex to change handling characteristics is certainly one way of getting the results you want, as a matter of fact, a lot of the Nascar boys even factor in the chassis flex when they tune the suspension. And you are right about the time and money involved to run different spring rates at different tracks. And considering how we're always running at different locations, it is impossible to find an "ideal" setup.

Just curious, do you have an adjustable rear sway bar?

I am just sorta against the idea of compromising predictability in order to get the car to perform a certain way but then again nothing in the world is perfect and you just have to work with what's available to you. And since I don't own a Lancer (my gf does, but hers is bone stock and will stay that way) I am not familiar with the type of aftermarket support that you guys get.

 

I currently have something like 1/2 toe in (normal street toe) and 1 degree negative camber all around. I disagreed with my alignment guy (he tunes Mustangs) and would like to go to 1/2 degree negative on the rear, which is closer to what my competitors are running. They also run 1-2 toe out, but I'm not willing to sacrifice my tire wear on the streets.

Speeds are usually under 60 mph. The push comes from hairpin turns probably around 20-30. For high speed cornering, like when I do road courses, the car seems perfectly balanced.

I do not have an adjustable rear sway bar, nor do I know of any available for the Lancer. The people I get most of my advice from run Subarus, and they can get adjustable rear sway bars.

Overall, my car is much faster with the new suspension (I am recording times 2 seconds faster even with my plow problem), but it is less controlable. I used to be able to bring the tail around with flick off the throttle. I'll get it where I want it by next season, though. Then it's time to work on the engine.

Do you think removing my front strut bar at California Speedway would be a good idea to get oversteer, or do you think that would be counter productive?

 

Yeah by taking out that half degree of negative camber at the back would definitely help the car rotate. I feel that at this point your negative camber at the back is excessive anyway. And are you sure you're running that much toe up front? 1/2 total toe seems... A little much.

I thought you autocrossed a lot, and your car was setup more for the low speed stuff? At what point does your car begin to understeer? Is it turn in? I know that you know this yourself but it can't hurt to remind you sometimes... Are you sure you're not overdriving the car?

I still don't like the idea of losing handling & predictability in order to induce oversteering. If your car is very neutral at high speed, but plows through low speed corners, chances are you're overdriving a little bit... Or if your front loses traction too easily as you apply throttle, then I would suggest two things: 1/. better throttle modulation and 2/. LSD.

 

By the way, I know how you feel... It took me YEARS to develope the kind of discipline to not treat the gas pedal as an on/off switch, and to not overdrive the car. Saves precious seconds from lap time, and saves rubber too!

 

Setting my pride aside, I think you're right, actually. The suspension seemed to have given me some excessive confidence. Still can't get the tail to come around, but I'm sure if I slowed down a tad more and powered out of the turn, I'd probably notice improved times. Just gotta learn how to drive the new suspension. LSD would be nice, but it's technically not legal in my category. Although the category it would place me in is running 3 seconds slower than the guys I'm up against Thanks for your help, you say things with respect as well as knowledge.