Lancer engine is junk!
Jun 23, 2003, 08:59 PM
#31
Originally posted by bahamut
I think you guys are a bit paranoid. Mitsu used the same 4g9x block but built it a little taller (might have some possible flaws). You guys need to look into those possible flaws and start dissecting them . . . probable cause and solution.
From all the years of reading and some first hand witness on the 4g92 and G93, those engines always had loud valvetrain noise. DSMs have it too to an extent. Those engines spun far more rpms, endured tons of mileage from age, and had more mods than most would ever expected.
Yes, just maybe Mitsu did take some short cuts on the block manufacturing process. You guy need to keep a log book on those possible problems. What's the problem? Solution? Did it work? and long term tear down and take a gander?
Heck, when my tuned G93 at 96K mileage was killed by a full size dodge truck, the motor still ran strong w/o antifreeze, 2 crushed exhaust runners on the OBX header, and P/S belt scraping along the busted core support for about 10-15 sec. I had to shut the car down in case starting a probable engine fire (messing w/ the fuel injectors before the crank up). Not once misfired or making abnormal noises, besides P/S belts scraping. Afterwards, I stripped most of my performance parts that weren't damaged.
As for valves and head, according to the RPW guy, it's exactly the same as the G93. So far, none of us experienced any valvetrain or cyl head problems. The latter has been documented from ill tuned TC application that blew a head gasket and more parts along with it. Or bent valves from missed the timing mark. Those factors are from human error, not parts failure.
For the rpm noise, look at the only internal variable from the G93 to G94, the conrods. That maybe it but it's up to you guys to look into it further.
Otherwise, some of you are hyper sensative.
I think you guys are a bit paranoid. Mitsu used the same 4g9x block but built it a little taller (might have some possible flaws). You guys need to look into those possible flaws and start dissecting them . . . probable cause and solution.
From all the years of reading and some first hand witness on the 4g92 and G93, those engines always had loud valvetrain noise. DSMs have it too to an extent. Those engines spun far more rpms, endured tons of mileage from age, and had more mods than most would ever expected.
Yes, just maybe Mitsu did take some short cuts on the block manufacturing process. You guy need to keep a log book on those possible problems. What's the problem? Solution? Did it work? and long term tear down and take a gander?
Heck, when my tuned G93 at 96K mileage was killed by a full size dodge truck, the motor still ran strong w/o antifreeze, 2 crushed exhaust runners on the OBX header, and P/S belt scraping along the busted core support for about 10-15 sec. I had to shut the car down in case starting a probable engine fire (messing w/ the fuel injectors before the crank up). Not once misfired or making abnormal noises, besides P/S belts scraping. Afterwards, I stripped most of my performance parts that weren't damaged.
As for valves and head, according to the RPW guy, it's exactly the same as the G93. So far, none of us experienced any valvetrain or cyl head problems. The latter has been documented from ill tuned TC application that blew a head gasket and more parts along with it. Or bent valves from missed the timing mark. Those factors are from human error, not parts failure.
For the rpm noise, look at the only internal variable from the G93 to G94, the conrods. That maybe it but it's up to you guys to look into it further.
Otherwise, some of you are hyper sensative.
1. The car is under warranty, it should not be his job to investigate the noise problem.
2. What block manufaturing short cut would cause the noise?
Maybe it was just off topic.
Log book of what? And why would he do a tear down to to take a gander? Yeah never mind, I don't get this part at all in reference to this post.
3. So if he gets the front of his car smashed by a Truck it will run good then? What if anything does this have to do with anything. Your car ran for 15 seconds, let it run like that for a minute or so and it was all over.
4. Actually blown head gaskets, bend valves, etc are parts failures. Human error in tuning may have cause it but it is still a parts failure. How do you miss a timing mark? Broken timing belt? (read: part failure). And on that note, head gaskets blow a majority of the time due to either warping of the cylinder head due to temperature or loss of clamping load of the head bolts.
Head bolts on most modern cars are torgue to yeild which means you are pre-stretching the bolt on installation. Which ironically people think it's just a bolt and reuse them after they are already stretched. This is a big cause of blow head gaskets after a repair.
5. Yes it could be the conrods but how did that help? You keep saying you guys. This is one guys post, cwest, looking for help.
From his posts I don't think he is going to rip apart his engine to look into all these things you mention.
6. As loud as he says it is, it is not normal and he is not being hypersensitive. He compares it to a Dodge Aries K coming down the road!
(Still makes me laugh)I am not trying to flame you, I am trying to make sense of your post and clear up some miss information as not to confuse people.
Jun 23, 2003, 09:01 PM
#32
Originally posted by cwest
Well, I tried the fix with no avail.
Any of you mechanics out the wanna side job replacing all my valva lash adjustors?
Well, I tried the fix with no avail.
Any of you mechanics out the wanna side job replacing all my valva lash adjustors?
Jun 23, 2003, 09:44 PM
#33
Lash Adjusters
I have a 4g63 powered 2nd gen eclipse (soon to be EVO hopefully). I'm pretty sure I remember reading in my owner's manual (I would look but it was stolen) that the auto lash adjusters tick sometimes when it first starts up and that is normal. Mine tick after I start it up all the time (from new till now, about 136K miles) and it's held up just fine. Sometimes when it ticks AFTER it's warmed up, I check the oil and it's always a little low. After I ad oil, it's fine. I fill it just a tad over the full line but not much. It's only ever had Mobil 1 10W-30 in it after the 1st oil change.
I'm guessing if yours ticks all the time, you have a blockage of oil passage(s) going to those lash adjusters and it should be fixed before there is any real damage.
Just a side note, doesn't your oil cap say to only use Mobil 1? Castrol GTX is dino-juice isn't it? I would NEVER EVER EVER use anything but Mobil 1 (well, maybe redline, but that's too expensive) in any car I cared about. Most other "synthetic" oils out there aren't really synthetic, just dino-juice or a blend.
I'm guessing if yours ticks all the time, you have a blockage of oil passage(s) going to those lash adjusters and it should be fixed before there is any real damage.
Just a side note, doesn't your oil cap say to only use Mobil 1? Castrol GTX is dino-juice isn't it? I would NEVER EVER EVER use anything but Mobil 1 (well, maybe redline, but that's too expensive) in any car I cared about. Most other "synthetic" oils out there aren't really synthetic, just dino-juice or a blend.
Jun 25, 2003, 06:16 AM
#36
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HAHA! good chart.
I've called MMCA regarding this problem & the dealer will be contacting me shortly. I will keep this post updated. I'm sure it is not going to be easy, but I want the dam car fixed!
Also, I don't think using synthetic would make a difference. How the heck could there be sludge after 25k miles? I've always used castrol gtx & had cars go over 250k..........
I've called MMCA regarding this problem & the dealer will be contacting me shortly. I will keep this post updated. I'm sure it is not going to be easy, but I want the dam car fixed!
Also, I don't think using synthetic would make a difference. How the heck could there be sludge after 25k miles? I've always used castrol gtx & had cars go over 250k..........
Jul 4, 2003, 12:16 PM
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Well, I still have not gone to the 
dealer, but I will be next week. It no longer seems to be the valve lash adjustors, but something more mechanical because I did the "get the air out of the adjustors" procedure & it eliminated this OTHER noise my motor was making! (which I am thankful for).
So, any ideas on what it could be now? What is left? The rocker arms? Please help guys because I'm taking it in next week.
dealer, but I will be next week. It no longer seems to be the valve lash adjustors, but something more mechanical because I did the "get the air out of the adjustors" procedure & it eliminated this OTHER noise my motor was making! (which I am thankful for). So, any ideas on what it could be now? What is left? The rocker arms? Please help guys because I'm taking it in next week.
Jul 4, 2003, 12:39 PM
#38
If you want to drive to SD i'll take a look at it. Mine is loud... the lash adjusters are just like that on mitsu motors. It sucks but noise is gone with touch of gas as oil pressure increases. If you have some other noise i'd be happy to investigate for you and get you going on the right path. Just pm me if you want. No charge for this as i'm happy to help you out. I just hope it isn't serious. 
Jul 9, 2003, 07:14 PM
#40
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I have called about it & the dealer called me back last week (7 days later) although I have not called them. I'm not looking forward to the negativity I'm gonna have to spew at them to get this crap fixed.
Mitsu is not helping their questionable reliability reputation with 2002 cars that rattle hella loud! & to say "that is normal" is just ridicilous. Ever hear a honda or toyota do that? Hmmmm.
Mitsu is in financial trouble & how do you fix that? Clever advertising, good financing deals, and keep getting the customers $$$$ even after they have bought their cars.
I still think this is an engineered problem Mitsu has put in and it will actuall be a big problem AFTER the warranty runs out. Henceforth, they get more of your $$$$ when you need a new cam, rockers, lash adjustors, gaskets, & labor!!!!
I dunno man, this is giving me a sour taste for Mitsu.
I'm gonna try one last time, but the dude at this Mitsu dealer is a f****** troll.
about it & the dealer called me back last week (7 days later) although I have not called them. I'm not looking forward to the negativity I'm gonna have to spew at them to get this crap fixed. Mitsu is not helping their questionable reliability reputation with 2002 cars that rattle hella loud! & to say "that is normal" is just ridicilous. Ever hear a honda or toyota do that? Hmmmm.
Mitsu is in financial trouble & how do you fix that? Clever advertising, good financing deals, and keep getting the customers $$$$ even after they have bought their cars.
I still think this is an engineered problem Mitsu has put in and it will actuall be a big problem AFTER the warranty runs out. Henceforth, they get more of your $$$$ when you need a new cam, rockers, lash adjustors, gaskets, & labor!!!!
I dunno man, this is giving me a sour taste for Mitsu.
I'm gonna try one last time, but the dude at this Mitsu dealer is a f****** troll.
Jul 9, 2003, 07:16 PM
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isn't it strange so many other guys are having this problem? I'll bet Mitsu figures we will all have our steeos up so loud we won't hear it untill the warranty is out! HA!
Jul 9, 2003, 08:33 PM
#42
Lash adjusters are like that on all mitsu motors that have them. Been a thing for mitsu for years. Is not a problem and will not be one after warranty... ha... like i have one anymore! Anyway, the biggest thing is that new mustangs have went to that setup as well. They make the noise as well but motor is so loud you need to get close to hear it. As with ours a touch of the pedal and it goes away as oil pressure is increased and the adjuster gets compressed more. Take it or leave it as mitsu will die before doing something different.
Jul 9, 2003, 09:15 PM
#43
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"1. The car is under warranty, it should not be his job to investigate the noise problem."
Mirages had the same problem. Some went to the dealership have gotten the same response. "That's nothing and go take a hike." Those mechanics won't tear into the motor until there is a general recall.
Then again, some lancer guys may believe that the lancer is built totally new from the ground up w/o any possibilities of part sharing.
"2. What block manufaturing short cut would cause the noise?
Maybe it was just off topic."
You have missed the point. Have you read the amount of past posts about ticking valves? There is enough of them make me assume that lancer owners believe their motors are crap. If it is the case, won't they ask Mitsu for a recall.
If it's morbidly bad, keep a log book like a journal like some DSM'ers do in trying to find the cause of crankwalk. You know what, Mitsu still won't admit the crankwalk problem on their end . . . all owner's fault in their mind. Of course, there are extremely few who have convinced Mitsu to repair at their expense.
"3. What if anything does this have to do with anything. Your car ran for 15 seconds, let it run like that for a minute or so and it was all over. "
You missed the boat again. I meant the motor was still strong, and I will not blow up the motor on purpose with the possibility of hurting others in a body shop yard. You know there are people around me working at this bodyshop with other businesses.
If my motor was that strong, how come lancer guys don't see it in their?
"4. Human error in tuning may have cause it but it is still a parts failure."
Human error will always be there. If some one ignores his high knock count from tuning, it's not the parts fault for being stout as forged.
If you are so confident about timing marks, how many guys on this board is fully confident in their skills doing a t-belt change? I 'm willing to bet less than 5% out of all total members here.
"5. From his posts I don't think he is going to rip apart his engine to look into all these things you mention.
It's not my problem if he doesn't want to investigate possibilities.
"I am trying to make sense of your post and clear up some miss information as not to confuse people."
Ya, thanks a lot. I really appreciate it coming from a person who hasn't touch a G93 or G94.
Also, there are no valve lash to adjust. It's hydraulic and self adjusting. If any Mitsu mechanic says so, they're wrong. There hasn't been valve lash adjustment since 97 for the G9x block in the US.
As for the comment that Mitsu is in red ink, that's not true, In 00 and onwards, the 3g eclipse and the lancer have save Mitsu along with some streamlining in the home market on the behalf of Mercedes' request.
Mirages had the same problem. Some went to the dealership have gotten the same response. "That's nothing and go take a hike." Those mechanics won't tear into the motor until there is a general recall.
Then again, some lancer guys may believe that the lancer is built totally new from the ground up w/o any possibilities of part sharing.
"2. What block manufaturing short cut would cause the noise?
Maybe it was just off topic."
You have missed the point. Have you read the amount of past posts about ticking valves? There is enough of them make me assume that lancer owners believe their motors are crap. If it is the case, won't they ask Mitsu for a recall.
If it's morbidly bad, keep a log book like a journal like some DSM'ers do in trying to find the cause of crankwalk. You know what, Mitsu still won't admit the crankwalk problem on their end . . . all owner's fault in their mind. Of course, there are extremely few who have convinced Mitsu to repair at their expense.
"3. What if anything does this have to do with anything. Your car ran for 15 seconds, let it run like that for a minute or so and it was all over. "
You missed the boat again. I meant the motor was still strong, and I will not blow up the motor on purpose with the possibility of hurting others in a body shop yard. You know there are people around me working at this bodyshop with other businesses.
If my motor was that strong, how come lancer guys don't see it in their?
"4. Human error in tuning may have cause it but it is still a parts failure."
Human error will always be there. If some one ignores his high knock count from tuning, it's not the parts fault for being stout as forged.
If you are so confident about timing marks, how many guys on this board is fully confident in their skills doing a t-belt change? I 'm willing to bet less than 5% out of all total members here.
"5. From his posts I don't think he is going to rip apart his engine to look into all these things you mention.
It's not my problem if he doesn't want to investigate possibilities.
"I am trying to make sense of your post and clear up some miss information as not to confuse people."
Ya, thanks a lot. I really appreciate it coming from a person who hasn't touch a G93 or G94.
Also, there are no valve lash to adjust. It's hydraulic and self adjusting. If any Mitsu mechanic says so, they're wrong. There hasn't been valve lash adjustment since 97 for the G9x block in the US.
As for the comment that Mitsu is in red ink, that's not true, In 00 and onwards, the 3g eclipse and the lancer have save Mitsu along with some streamlining in the home market on the behalf of Mercedes' request.
Jul 9, 2003, 09:35 PM
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hey I got the same LOW click click noise on my lancer and I've had it for like 7 months.. I bought the very first lancer from my dealer.. I never bothered to take it back because my friend told me all mitsu's have that lifter sound.. but I got so paranoid I ended up taking off my custom turbo kit.. thinking I ****ed up.. now im saving up to do it right with RRM :] anyhow.. i've been driving with this noise forever.. and it doesnt' bother me anymore since its only around 1800-2000 rpm only.. and you can't hear it unless the windows are up and 0 music :P so.. its probably normal.. I can't take my **** back to dealer because I had turbo on it but.. I dont' see how they would know since I got a new oil pan :] anyhow if you find out how to fix let us all know 
DDD
DDD
Jul 9, 2003, 10:50 PM
#45
Originally posted by bahamut
[B]"1. The car is under warranty, it should not be his job to investigate the noise problem."
Mirages had the same problem. Some went to the dealership have gotten the same response. "That's nothing and go take a hike." Those mechanics won't tear into the motor until there is a general recall.
Then again, some lancer guys may believe that the lancer is built totally new from the ground up w/o any possibilities of part sharing.
Again, I don't see your point. If he has a noise that is excessive then he needs to push the dealer to fix the problem, ie it is under warranty.
"2. What block manufaturing short cut would cause the noise?
Maybe it was just off topic."
You have missed the point. Have you read the amount of past posts about ticking valves? There is enough of them make me assume that lancer owners believe their motors are crap. If it is the case, won't they ask Mitsu for a recall.
If it's morbidly bad, keep a log book like a journal like some DSM'ers do in trying to find the cause of crankwalk. You know what, Mitsu still won't admit the crankwalk problem on their end . . . all owner's fault in their mind. Of course, there are extremely few who have convinced Mitsu to repair at their expense.
Again, what shortcut? We are not talking about crankwalk, stay on topic.
"3. What if anything does this have to do with anything. Your car ran for 15 seconds, let it run like that for a minute or so and it was all over. "
You missed the boat again. I meant the motor was still strong, and I will not blow up the motor on purpose with the possibility of hurting others in a body shop yard. You know there are people around me working at this bodyshop with other businesses.
If my motor was that strong, how come lancer guys don't see it in their?
No you missed the point. The fact that the car was in an accident has nothing to do with it. And you watch too much TV because it is not a bomb and does not "blow up". At most it will throw a rod through the side of the block.
"4. Human error in tuning may have cause it but it is still a parts failure."
Human error will always be there. If some one ignores his high knock count from tuning, it's not the parts fault for being stout as forged.
If you are so confident about timing marks, how many guys on this board is fully confident in their skills doing a t-belt change? I 'm willing to bet less than 5% out of all total members here.
Doesn't matter how many people can change a timing belt, the car is still under waranty and hasn't been touched. You don't get the point with the part failure thing, I am not going to take the time to explain it.
"5. From his posts I don't think he is going to rip apart his engine to look into all these things you mention.
It's not my problem if he doesn't want to investigate possibilities.
The point was he is not a mechanic, what do you expect of him?
"I am trying to make sense of your post and clear up some miss information as not to confuse people."
Ya, thanks a lot. I really appreciate it coming from a person who hasn't touch a G93 or G94.
How do you know what I have worked on? I have worked on more cars then you can imagine. I have had more factory training then probably 99% of the people on this board. I have a college degree in Automotive Technology. What are your qualifications to spew out your misinformation. I'd run circles around you any day of the week on a car, wether I've worked on it before or not.
I have more knowlege of his particular car because he has been emailing me information. I don't even know why I bother to try and help people, there is always someone with a narrow set of knowledge about a car who thinks they always right. I feel like I am just wasting my time.
[B]"1. The car is under warranty, it should not be his job to investigate the noise problem."
Mirages had the same problem. Some went to the dealership have gotten the same response. "That's nothing and go take a hike." Those mechanics won't tear into the motor until there is a general recall.
Then again, some lancer guys may believe that the lancer is built totally new from the ground up w/o any possibilities of part sharing.
Again, I don't see your point. If he has a noise that is excessive then he needs to push the dealer to fix the problem, ie it is under warranty.
"2. What block manufaturing short cut would cause the noise?
Maybe it was just off topic."
You have missed the point. Have you read the amount of past posts about ticking valves? There is enough of them make me assume that lancer owners believe their motors are crap. If it is the case, won't they ask Mitsu for a recall.
If it's morbidly bad, keep a log book like a journal like some DSM'ers do in trying to find the cause of crankwalk. You know what, Mitsu still won't admit the crankwalk problem on their end . . . all owner's fault in their mind. Of course, there are extremely few who have convinced Mitsu to repair at their expense.
Again, what shortcut? We are not talking about crankwalk, stay on topic.
"3. What if anything does this have to do with anything. Your car ran for 15 seconds, let it run like that for a minute or so and it was all over. "
You missed the boat again. I meant the motor was still strong, and I will not blow up the motor on purpose with the possibility of hurting others in a body shop yard. You know there are people around me working at this bodyshop with other businesses.
If my motor was that strong, how come lancer guys don't see it in their?
No you missed the point. The fact that the car was in an accident has nothing to do with it. And you watch too much TV because it is not a bomb and does not "blow up". At most it will throw a rod through the side of the block.
"4. Human error in tuning may have cause it but it is still a parts failure."
Human error will always be there. If some one ignores his high knock count from tuning, it's not the parts fault for being stout as forged.
If you are so confident about timing marks, how many guys on this board is fully confident in their skills doing a t-belt change? I 'm willing to bet less than 5% out of all total members here.
Doesn't matter how many people can change a timing belt, the car is still under waranty and hasn't been touched. You don't get the point with the part failure thing, I am not going to take the time to explain it.
"5. From his posts I don't think he is going to rip apart his engine to look into all these things you mention.
It's not my problem if he doesn't want to investigate possibilities.
The point was he is not a mechanic, what do you expect of him?
"I am trying to make sense of your post and clear up some miss information as not to confuse people."
Ya, thanks a lot. I really appreciate it coming from a person who hasn't touch a G93 or G94.
How do you know what I have worked on? I have worked on more cars then you can imagine. I have had more factory training then probably 99% of the people on this board. I have a college degree in Automotive Technology. What are your qualifications to spew out your misinformation. I'd run circles around you any day of the week on a car, wether I've worked on it before or not.
I have more knowlege of his particular car because he has been emailing me information. I don't even know why I bother to try and help people, there is always someone with a narrow set of knowledge about a car who thinks they always right. I feel like I am just wasting my time.