bad gas mileage?
May 21, 2008, 12:20 PM
#33
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Originally Posted by Camshaft
WHATEVER, think what you want. I didn't go to school for 5 years to not know about this stuff or anything.
It does not have extra power in higher octane fuels, you guys are on crack. it does not burn slower. all octane is is a resistance to pre-ignition!!!!
OCTANE - A rating scale used to grade gasoline as to its antiknock properties. Also any of several isometric liquid paraffin hydrocarbons, C8H18. Normal octane is a colorless liquid found in petroleum boiling at 124.6 degrees Celsius.
OCTANE RATING - A measure of a gasoline's resistance to exploding too early in the engine cycle, which causes knocking. The higher the rating, the lower the chance of premature ignition.
It does not have extra power in higher octane fuels, you guys are on crack. it does not burn slower. all octane is is a resistance to pre-ignition!!!!
OCTANE - A rating scale used to grade gasoline as to its antiknock properties. Also any of several isometric liquid paraffin hydrocarbons, C8H18. Normal octane is a colorless liquid found in petroleum boiling at 124.6 degrees Celsius.
OCTANE RATING - A measure of a gasoline's resistance to exploding too early in the engine cycle, which causes knocking. The higher the rating, the lower the chance of premature ignition.
Fine, higher octane ratings simply means the fuel is more resistant to pre-detonation. I can live with that, and consider it a lesson learned.
However, I still stand by my comment that the current use of Ethanol as an Octane "enhancer" and oxygenate in modern unleaded fuel formulations results in lower power development and higher fuel consumption (to produce equivalent amounts of power from the same engine) due to its lower explosive properties. Which seems to go against the hippie's mantra to save the planet, if you ask me, because more fuel burned = more green house gases emitted per unit power developed...
May 21, 2008, 01:59 PM
#35
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My opinion is that ethanol and all that bio-deisel fuel is a waste. It costs about 13 times the amount of energy to create 1 gallon of ethanol compared to 1 gallon of petrol.
I don't know if i can agree with Ethanol being an "Octane enhancer". I'm no expert on fuel, but I thought ethanol is added because of its similarity to petrol, it can "water" down the fuel without changing the properties of the mixture, aka they both burn. And then the octane is added in order to prevent pre-ignition because ethanol has a lower compression rating.
I know my dad adds kerosene to his car which does the same thing as ethanol, but u def can't push the pedal to the floor cuz then the engine bogs down a lot. I would think if you added more octane to the mix, it would work better.
anyways, thats my 2cents.
However, I still stand by my comment that the current use of Ethanol as an Octane "enhancer" and oxygenate in modern unleaded fuel formulations results in lower power development and higher fuel consumption (to produce equivalent amounts of power from the same engine) due to its lower explosive properties. Which seems to go against the hippie's mantra to save the planet, if you ask me, because more fuel burned = more green house gases emitted per unit power developed...
I know my dad adds kerosene to his car which does the same thing as ethanol, but u def can't push the pedal to the floor cuz then the engine bogs down a lot. I would think if you added more octane to the mix, it would work better.
anyways, thats my 2cents.
May 21, 2008, 02:31 PM
#36
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They aren't adding Ethanol to gasoline to "water it down" per say. They're using it to replace MTBE as the oxygenate and as an Octane enhancer. MTBE was developed to help gasoline burn cleaner back in the 70's. However, since then researchers have found that MTBE is somehow finding it's way into the water supply systems, and the environmentalists lobbied to have a safer oxygenate to replace MTBE in the fuel formulations. Just so happens that Ethanol was the chemical of choice, because it's much safer for the environment (in the event of a spill).
Ethanol has a very high octane rating, and it readily mixes with a large variety of substances (including gasoline and water). So, when formulating fuel, mixing in as much as 10% Ethanol will boost the octane rating of the fuel, and give the fuel formulators their required amount of oxygenation for their formula. The draw back is Ethanol's explosive properties (amount of energy released when burned) isn't even close to that of fossil fuels. So, in order for an engine to develop the same amount of power as it did running pure fossil fuel, it needs to burn quite a bit more of the ethanol mix. As an example of how much more that is, a 1976 MGB will get 20MPG (city) on a fuel that uses MTBE for its oxygenate. That same car got 16MPG (city) on an Ethanol laced fuel.
Adding kerosene wouldn't be the same as adding Ethanol to a tank of gas, because you would not have the "oxygenation" effect that you have with Ethanol. Adding kerosene to a tank of fuel would be more like adding jet fuel or diesel fuel to your tank of gas. Adding Ethanol to a tank of gas is more like dumping some moonshine into it...
Just so happens that the active ingredient in booze is ethanol, too. Not that I want to go out and drink a glass of E85.....
Ethanol has a very high octane rating, and it readily mixes with a large variety of substances (including gasoline and water). So, when formulating fuel, mixing in as much as 10% Ethanol will boost the octane rating of the fuel, and give the fuel formulators their required amount of oxygenation for their formula. The draw back is Ethanol's explosive properties (amount of energy released when burned) isn't even close to that of fossil fuels. So, in order for an engine to develop the same amount of power as it did running pure fossil fuel, it needs to burn quite a bit more of the ethanol mix. As an example of how much more that is, a 1976 MGB will get 20MPG (city) on a fuel that uses MTBE for its oxygenate. That same car got 16MPG (city) on an Ethanol laced fuel.
Adding kerosene wouldn't be the same as adding Ethanol to a tank of gas, because you would not have the "oxygenation" effect that you have with Ethanol. Adding kerosene to a tank of fuel would be more like adding jet fuel or diesel fuel to your tank of gas. Adding Ethanol to a tank of gas is more like dumping some moonshine into it...
Just so happens that the active ingredient in booze is ethanol, too. Not that I want to go out and drink a glass of E85.....
May 22, 2008, 05:06 AM
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May 22, 2008, 07:52 PM
#38
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Okay Gas Mileage
if i keep tach below 2k, i can get 25 city. on highway i average 30-33 with cruise control. it wasn't worth the added cost 6-8k to buy a hybrid for me. if the engine is cold every car will get bad gas mileage, even hybrid.
May 22, 2008, 07:57 PM
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May 22, 2008, 09:39 PM
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May 22, 2008, 10:34 PM
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yeah, my drive to work is 5 minutes, like 1.4miles each way, and i hit 0-2 lights, and 4 stop signs, and then when i have school, its like 3-4 miles each way, or like 7 minutes each way. so i can understand i wouldnt get the best mileage, but 5mpg under what they advertised is a big difference...
May 22, 2008, 11:44 PM
#43
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I put 89 Premium in my car after I used about 60% of the tank the dealer gave me. Seems to have been driving fine with it. $3.719 a gallon at Costco for Premium.
May 23, 2008, 03:41 PM
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then whats the point of having a car if im going to walk everywhere? and walking to work takes lie 25 minutes, 20 if i run. and if i had a bicycle, i probably would ride it to work on nice days
