GF's lancer is an 03 OZ auto with 65k. battery is about 1 year old. starter/altnator original.

I haven't seen this issue but this how she explains it. Once in a while ( mainly early morning/late nights where the car sat for a bit ) the car would not start right away. It started having to hold the key in the IGN slot for a little longer and now its on to two or 3 tries to get it working. Just today she told me she attempted to start it up twice and no go, waited 5 minutes and started it up and it was good to go. Its a problem that comes and goes. It hasn't left her stranded but its something i want to start looking into as it is a safety concern.

Once the car start it runs great. no idle issues, no misfires and stall outs. So i ruled out air/spark/fuel being the problem. If once the car start it runs like normal then its not all too mechanical about it. Its just what is needed for the car to start. This would easily be something with the IMMBOLIZER but this car doesn't have one.

To me it sounds like a loose wire or it can be small hint that the starter is going on, I dont want to swap the starter right now at this point because i feel its not the problem. i've heard cam/crank sensors being bad on these and no working out.

Are there any common issues? I had a cam or crank CEL about a year ago but it never came back. Didn't think too much it might be now failing...

 

seriously? no one has similiar issues?

kinda wanna know if its like a fuel pump relay, maybe its not priming correctly thats why it starts on the 2nd try and etc. What is the common issues.

 

Are you saying that sometimes it cranks but doesn't start? Or that you turn the key and get nothing?

 

car ALWAYS cranks... but recently 5% of the time it will not start on the first try.

Just happen right now. car sat from 7am - 3pm in front of my house in 60 degrees weather. We go start up the car and it required a slightly longer amount of cranking to start.

To give you an idea of what i mean. From the second you turn the key it should be roughly 1-1.5 seconds till you hear the car start and let go. Thats about normal operation. Well this time it took about 3-3.5 seconds of cranking and then it would start up. It started and it was running nicely as it should.

kinda seems like when it sits for a while the fuel pressure isn't holding so thats why it needs a longer crank. but thats a complete guess/ shoot in the dark idea.

This is the first time i actually saw it happen, my mother's 96 camry does something similar but its been doing it for 3 years now and never NOT started on the first try given it make take holding the key in for 4 seconds on average but it starts.

 

did the oil change on it today. checked the battery cables to make sure they were tight, scanned for faults and none found. looked at long term fuel trims +6.25

 

my car takes about 3 seconds to kick over , normally with all cars you arent supposed to hold the key on longer then 30 seconds due to load on the starting circuit , I'd say 3 seconds is fine and normal Ive sat in evo 8's at work that took longer to start probably around 6-10 seconds...

if your really concerned check the plugs , hook in a fuel pressure gauge run it shut it off and check for a leak down , Ive never heard of the symptom unless someone improperly installed a fuel pump in it and forgot the white spacer on the fuel pump outlet ....

if you have no cel light the crank sensor is fine it will throw a code for an intermittent fault .

How are you reading the long term fuel trims? and why? they have lil to do with startup and more to do with idle-wot and on the opposite end short term fuel trims are adjusted for a temporary quick issue....

0-+10% is fine for ltft that just means at that current temp of the car it is taking a 6.25% compensation of the injectors to make the car run at stoich as measured by the o2 sensors
I wouldnt be looking into fuel trims etc if the car is stock .

 

how am i reading it, thru my elmscan scantool.

why am i reading it? people mentioned it might be fuel related, like the reason why it takes longer the crank is because the fuel lines isn't holding pressure and it why it takes longer to crank is because the first couple of cranks is building up pressure, i thought maybe the fuel trims would hint that something is up.

You look into fuel trims for stock cars to see if there is a vac leak or other internal issues. I normally look at fuel trims when i see a misfire to see what i'm dealing with.

I've asked people about this problem and a lot of people told me, it somewhat related to fuel pumps on their cars, given this is everyone make and model out there and not lancer specific.

If this car had a immobilizer, it sounds like that is the problem. But it doesn't so yea.

The longer cranks really doesn't bother me, but the fact that the car cranked and didn't start 2 times in a month does. Yea it works 5 minutes later but this i feel is not normal. For my GF to drive this car, kinda makes me feel unsafe and worried at times.

 

Sorry didnt mean to come off sounding like a jerk ,Ive just never heard of checking ltft's for startup issues

I would check plugs tbh, and if your worried check the seal on the fuel pump and replace the fuel pressure regulator , the plugs and regulator are most likely and would be where I'd start , Im an ase mast. mechanic at mitsu that'd be my opinion

 

i wanna do all the FREE checks and easy inspections first, i'll actually replace the plugs, i think i did them at 30 or 40k and i put in copper ones. since its at 65k now i might as well replace them.

How would i go about checking the fuel pump gasket, i know its in the back seat, pull that up and remove the 3 bolts on the cover..

this doesn't sound like a starter problem does it?

Do these FPR go bad often? they are about $100 bucks.. dont want to replace unless its a MUST. I think i have a fuel pressure/ vac gauge in my toolbox.

oh btw i really didn't care how you sounded, i'm asking for help and you are helping me. LTFT was just a number i could of stated that i didn't know what the specs were for and i feel this problem is mainly fuel related.

 

was told it happened again today in the morning. but fired up one the 2nd try.

i'ma pull/replaced the plugs since its cheap and report back... is there a way to test the fuel pump reg? easily anyways... i guess T gauge into the line but i dont know which line.

 

The fuel pump gasket is actually built into the fuel pump carrier assembly itself and is non-replaceable. The pickup "sock" at the bottom of the fuel pump does little to no filtering.

You can remove the starter and take it to Autozone and have it tested. That will give you a yes/no on that one. Same goes for the alternator. They both are not difficult to remove and require nothing more than a 12mm and 14mm wrench.

To the best of my knowledge I can't ever recall someone having their FPR go bad. There is a process to test it out. If you haven't downloaded a copy of the 2003 Lancer FSM yet, you should. It will help out greatly. If you need a replacement one, let me know. I'm close to Chicago and have like 2 or 3 stock FPRs. I'll give you one, if you want.

 

I meant the lil rubber grommet that slips onto the fuel pump outlet thats the fuel pump gasket/grommet
its that black grommet then the white retainer then the pump ...Ive seen them dry out occasionally causing it to loose fuel pressure while sitting

 

i guess the starter is right under the intake box itself. i pulled the snorkel thing off and didn't see it.

Oh more things i've noticed, upon start up it sounds like a metal clank is heard, just once right at the point of startup and gone...

not sure what to think. pretty sure its engine related. maybe small signs of the starter having issues maybe not.

 

The starter is located on the back of the engine below the intake manifold right where the transmission meets the engine. There are two 14mm bolts that go through the trans housing into the starter. There is a 12mm nut that secures the 12v feed from the harness to the terminal on the starter and a flat spade connector that is connected to the solenoid on the starter.

Here's the view from the rear of the engine:

 

so i will be working out of intake box area to do the work? or should i go from under and behind the trans to pull it off.

picture is useless to me.