Chrushev

My 2003 Lancer has 100k miles, I have to crank it twice or 3 times to start (or it will start right away if I pump gas once before crank), Im thinking fuel pump is going bad or fuel filter is clogged.

I think these are cheap parts, what are good brands for these and are either known to need to be replaced (known issues?) ?

carlsson

Chrushev

Have cleaned throttle body, have replaced spark plugs/wires. Im no expert either, but pumps are very cheap and at 100k probably not a bad idea to replace? I also think (I would like someone to confirm) that the fuel filter is part of the pump assembly and not in line somewhere else. So that definitely would benefit from a 100k replacement (from what Ive seen the "lifetime filter" thing is bullcrap, because if you take one out and test it for flow/dirt you will find that it really sucks, or more precisely "blocks".

Again, I am no expert either and thats why Im here to get advice, but seeing how the issue appears to be with priming the engine, Its kind of down to it either being injectors or the pump, and pump replacement is a fraction of injectors. And if it were injectors I would think the car would have issues running... while if fuel filter is gummed up or pump is going bad then it will just work harder to compensate and may still run fine ? Dont know :/

once started the car runs like its brand new

carlsson

Chrushev

Yeah issue is on both cold and hot starts. Im in Cali, so our "cold" is like 50 degrees outside. Sometimes Ill start the car first try no problem 3 or 4 times in a row, other times every single start I need to give one pump to the pedal before it starts, otherwise it just cranks.

Once car is running it seems to run great. I go up to 80MPH on the freeway pretty regularly and power/RPMs seem fine. My MPG seems normal for 2003 car, I get around 23 to 24MPG of about 75% city driving and 25% freeway. Which I think is exactly where it should be.

Can tension on timing belt cause this problem? Like if its not tight enough? Or being off by 1 tooth? The reason I ask is because I was watching this video and that ended up being his problem, but thats a different car and in his case it wouldnt start at all -

carlsson

Chrushev

From what Ive read our lancers dont prime on key ON, they prime when you actually try to crank. Which is a problem here, because yeah if it doesnt put in enough in a second or however long it has then you get cranking and no start. Which may be my problem. Then question becomes, is it the pump, is it the filter, is it the injectors. Logic tells me that if it was the injectors then I would have weird issues while normally driving because they are used all the time. Pump though could be it, if it just has to work harder, which is fine during runtime, but in that less than a second it has to prime before ignition may not be enough time for it to pump in enough. I ordered some spark plugs and wires, will replace those in a few days... my current ones are at 30k and I think they are copper. I got some Platinum NGK ones to put in. Will see if that makes a difference, but again I think if it was the plugs I would see issues during normal running. So I dont anticipate them making a difference.

Its something really subtle that isnt visible during normal running yet appears during startup. I dont think many things can do both of those. ive taken apart MAF before to try solve this and cleaned it, but it didnt make a difference (there is a chance its bad, but I think that would throw a code right? I got no codes). for IACV, is that the one under the throttle body intake? If so then no I have not taken that out or cleaned it... its probably not been removed since car assembly.

I have seafomed (both spray and liquid) into my throttle body/oil/gas to try see if that will clean injectors or something else gummed up. Didnt fix the issue, and in general I think my engine and all that is pretty clean for a 16 year old car, passes all emissions and exhaust is proper looking (nothing weird about it).

I really think I should try the fuel pump. Ive seen a few videos on how to replace it, seems easy. But I am still unclear which part of the pump assembly (the white plastic piece) is the filter (pump itself is obvious). Is the filter inside the pump cylinder? Or is it elsewhere in that plastic holder?
And not sure where to order from. Ive looked on Amazon, but theres got to be a better place. At the same time I dont plan to keep this car for more than another 20k miles. so I dont want to spend an arm and a leg on an OEM pump, if my issue is indeed the pump then the OEM one started failing at around 60k for me. I think a non OEM will do same or better.

This guy here gets good reviews and is Denso which is great, but wonder if I can get it cheaper elsewhere? -

Edit: Lol I said f$%k it and ordered that DENSO one. Will report back on how that goes. Im willing to bet that it will fix the problem. From reading online fuel pumps last around 175-200k miles, but basically after 100k it can fail any time. So since Im just hitting 100k it seems like a good time to change it regardless for extra reliability. And some describe my symptoms as pump symptoms. Also for majority of the first 6 or 7 years when this car was brand new I drove on 1/2 or less tank of gas because it sat around a lot, weeks at a time, so I didnt want real old gas to sit in the tank for a long time. I had no idea that can actually damage the pump... so that could have accelerated its death.

carlsson

Chrushev

Yeah Ill definitely update this in about a week with the results. Ive been reading more about the pumps and some places claim they are technically designed for 50k (guaranteed) after that its basically dependent on how hard it has to work and how clean the gas is.

rockauto site seems great, it has like 6 different options for that pump including this DENSO one, which would end up costing the same as Amazon even with shipping. Ill keep them in mind for future purchases. Im wondering if I should get a new gasket, becase it looks like the kit doesnt come with a new one... but maybe its ok to reuse old one?

carlsson

Chrushev

Ok, replaced plugs/wires, issue remained. Replaced pump... boom first crank start every time. Granted its been only about 5 starts in the last few days, but so far so good... will update this further if issue comes back. Also for anyone seeking info... the filter is impossible to replace without replacing the whole pump assembly, it is welded (melted plastic together) pieces that hold the filter. What I ened up doing is replacing the pump and the sock, both of those just pop out of the assembly.

So glad the issue seems to be resolved.. been bugging me for almost 6 years!!!

I do have another issue now that is possibly related to plugs replacement (vibration when car is cold that goes away after warmup... but it could be because the comptuer is re-learning idle, so maybe non issue, RPM is solid during vibration.... ill make a separate post about that tho).

carlsson

Ponce07

Glad the new pump resolved your issue. I'm in the same boat with my '03 Lancer (160k miles), almost everything as far as maintenance parts (sensors, starter, battery, vacuum lines etc) has been replaced over the years. I've even removed and thoroughly cleaned the intake manifold & components and I still have the intermittent starting issue. I guess that just leaves the fuel portion. Thanks for the info on the fuel pump filter being a pain to remove, I'll be getting new pump as well.

Keep us posted if the issue comes back

Chrushev

Yeah you would need to get the whole assembly to replace the filter not just the pump itself (which I think is much more expensive). I could see a small portion of the filter by looking down one of the tubes in the assembly and it was still white/yellowish (kind of like a parchment). Not black or anything. So I think at least in my case its still fine as far as letting things pass through.

The ignition did definitely improve after the pump change. But it didnt get restored to how the car was when it was new. Some starts are instant like that, but some take a few seconds.

The injectors could be old, and all my hoses/lines are still original. Only rubber stuff that has been replaced are the belts.

I am considering taking apart the IACV and cleaning it. Since it has never been cleaned before to see if that makes every start instant. Maybe its impossible. The car is 16 years old after-all even despite 100k milage. Shes an old lady now. Average age of cars on the road is 11 years (in the US).

overall I am glad I replaced the pump, it did improve things, but didnt make them perfect. And if anything the car is much more reliable now. I know the pump wont be going out on me and should last for the remainder of this car's life.

carlsson