what u guys think of tha new chevy colbalt
Newbie
Joined: Oct 2004
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Originally Posted by LancerOZ
Well their flagship sportscar, the 2005 C6 corvette doesn't even have independent rear suspension, so I wasn't expecting much.
- Jason
- Jason
The Cobalt is much improved over the Cavalier, but like everyone else has stated, it comes up a little short on performance.
Evolved Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 574
Likes: 0
From: New Bedford, MA
Here's my whole take on the Cobalt.
----- -----
Prior to Chevy "americanizing" the Daewoo-origined Aveo, the only entry-level car Chevrolet really had was the Cavalier. Keep in mind the Cavalier was originally positioned to go head-to-head against the Tier-1 Japanese players such as the Corolla, Civic, and Sentra. This seemed fine and dandy, until the cutthroat South Koreans came along with some very low-priced models.
Granted, early 90's Hyundai's weren't anything great. They were akin to the Japanese cars of the late 70s/early 80s, however they were one thing: CHEAP. And American's are a bunch of skinflints, and despite quality issues, slowly began to consider offerings from Hyundai and other South Korean manufacturers. So at this point, lacking anything low-end on the Chevy brand (GM always had Saturn as the bottom rung), they decided to take cost-cutting measures to the Cavalier. Of course, after hacking so much out of it, it was no longer comparable to the Japanese, so it was reduced to a Korean-fighter.
And it did sell. Despite arguably the worst interiors in the industry, the J-platform (Sunbird/Sunfire, SkyHawk, J2000, etc.) essentially being a death trap, poor build quality, abysmal resale (high percentage of fleet sale), etc. the Cavalier earned itself a pretty bad reputation, and rightfully so. The only thing the car exceeded in was having thousands of dollars often taken off its already low price. Thank god for light truck sales funding the entire organization, huh Chevy?
So, Chevrolet brokered a deal with Daewoo to bring over the Aveo (GM has done this for years, going as far back as the Pontiac LeMans), in order to give the Chevy brand a "cheap" car to go against the growing strength of the Koreans, as well as other subcompacts like the Toyota Echo. Now, Chevrolet can attempt to properly aim the Cavalier at the Tier-1 Japanese economy cars since they can price the car several thousand dollars higher -- hopefully stepping up quality levels to something acceptable. Additionally, it's a new nameplate on a new platform (Delta, also used by the Opel Astra), so it doesn't carry the stigma of the Cavalier name (much like what MMNA did renaming the Mirage to Lancer in the US).
By default, the Cobalt should exceed the ION in all areas EXCEPT price (also compare the VUE to the Equinox). Saturn is GM's value brand, whereas Chevrolet is their "traditional" brand (Pontiac being slotted just below Chevrolet, and Cadillac being the premium brand). If you haven't noticed, ION build and interior quality is absolutely abysmal, hence considerable changes across the board to the vehicle for the 2005 model year. The cars may have the same output and suspension, but in the long run, the Cobalt should maintain higher resale value and should have improved overall quality -- though only time will tell. I do however, expect Chevrolet to somewhat distance the Cobalt -- if only slightly -- from the ION Red Line in terms of performance, even if it is something trivial like 5HP. Besides, the ION numbers are underrated as many dynos have shown, giving Chevrolet a legal way to say the same exact engine puts out more power in a different car.
GM seems to be amending their ways and is trying to once again be competitive with Toyota/Honda with its mainstay Chevrolet (and to a lesser extent, Pontiac) brands. Largely by improving interior quality and featureset while keeping prices on par or under the Japanese. The Cobalt will sell well no matter what -- lower price, similar features is enough to get the average Joe in the door.
----- -----
As for the performance of the SS, we'll see. This is the first year, so I would expect Chevrolet is looking for consumer feedback in addition to seeing where sales numbers are. At least in the ION, the car crashes into the rev-limiter while still building power, which it apparently has difficulties putting to the ground as it is. Additionally, lack of a limited-slip differental will limit handling capabilities, though at least Chevrolet thought enough to use equal-length half-shafts to reduce torque steer. Brakes could be beefier as well. Though it looks like the car will handle as well as a stock SRT-4.
But, the Cobalt will sell well, because at least marketing did their research about what the average race-driver wannabe, or something just looking for a bit of kick and sporty attitude, wants. 18" alloy wheels with low-profile tires, sunroof, a decent sound system with MP3 playback, keyless entry, shiny interior accent bits, leather (albeit cheap), and aggressive styling. If the car lacks what performance buyers desire, this is only it's first year, giving Chevrolet plenty of time to respond to consumer's demands.
The SRT-4 is a much better value from a performance standpoint, but the Cobalt may have more shiny things to get the buyer into the door.
----- -----
Prior to Chevy "americanizing" the Daewoo-origined Aveo, the only entry-level car Chevrolet really had was the Cavalier. Keep in mind the Cavalier was originally positioned to go head-to-head against the Tier-1 Japanese players such as the Corolla, Civic, and Sentra. This seemed fine and dandy, until the cutthroat South Koreans came along with some very low-priced models.
Granted, early 90's Hyundai's weren't anything great. They were akin to the Japanese cars of the late 70s/early 80s, however they were one thing: CHEAP. And American's are a bunch of skinflints, and despite quality issues, slowly began to consider offerings from Hyundai and other South Korean manufacturers. So at this point, lacking anything low-end on the Chevy brand (GM always had Saturn as the bottom rung), they decided to take cost-cutting measures to the Cavalier. Of course, after hacking so much out of it, it was no longer comparable to the Japanese, so it was reduced to a Korean-fighter.
And it did sell. Despite arguably the worst interiors in the industry, the J-platform (Sunbird/Sunfire, SkyHawk, J2000, etc.) essentially being a death trap, poor build quality, abysmal resale (high percentage of fleet sale), etc. the Cavalier earned itself a pretty bad reputation, and rightfully so. The only thing the car exceeded in was having thousands of dollars often taken off its already low price. Thank god for light truck sales funding the entire organization, huh Chevy?
So, Chevrolet brokered a deal with Daewoo to bring over the Aveo (GM has done this for years, going as far back as the Pontiac LeMans), in order to give the Chevy brand a "cheap" car to go against the growing strength of the Koreans, as well as other subcompacts like the Toyota Echo. Now, Chevrolet can attempt to properly aim the Cavalier at the Tier-1 Japanese economy cars since they can price the car several thousand dollars higher -- hopefully stepping up quality levels to something acceptable. Additionally, it's a new nameplate on a new platform (Delta, also used by the Opel Astra), so it doesn't carry the stigma of the Cavalier name (much like what MMNA did renaming the Mirage to Lancer in the US).
By default, the Cobalt should exceed the ION in all areas EXCEPT price (also compare the VUE to the Equinox). Saturn is GM's value brand, whereas Chevrolet is their "traditional" brand (Pontiac being slotted just below Chevrolet, and Cadillac being the premium brand). If you haven't noticed, ION build and interior quality is absolutely abysmal, hence considerable changes across the board to the vehicle for the 2005 model year. The cars may have the same output and suspension, but in the long run, the Cobalt should maintain higher resale value and should have improved overall quality -- though only time will tell. I do however, expect Chevrolet to somewhat distance the Cobalt -- if only slightly -- from the ION Red Line in terms of performance, even if it is something trivial like 5HP. Besides, the ION numbers are underrated as many dynos have shown, giving Chevrolet a legal way to say the same exact engine puts out more power in a different car.
GM seems to be amending their ways and is trying to once again be competitive with Toyota/Honda with its mainstay Chevrolet (and to a lesser extent, Pontiac) brands. Largely by improving interior quality and featureset while keeping prices on par or under the Japanese. The Cobalt will sell well no matter what -- lower price, similar features is enough to get the average Joe in the door.
----- -----
As for the performance of the SS, we'll see. This is the first year, so I would expect Chevrolet is looking for consumer feedback in addition to seeing where sales numbers are. At least in the ION, the car crashes into the rev-limiter while still building power, which it apparently has difficulties putting to the ground as it is. Additionally, lack of a limited-slip differental will limit handling capabilities, though at least Chevrolet thought enough to use equal-length half-shafts to reduce torque steer. Brakes could be beefier as well. Though it looks like the car will handle as well as a stock SRT-4.
But, the Cobalt will sell well, because at least marketing did their research about what the average race-driver wannabe, or something just looking for a bit of kick and sporty attitude, wants. 18" alloy wheels with low-profile tires, sunroof, a decent sound system with MP3 playback, keyless entry, shiny interior accent bits, leather (albeit cheap), and aggressive styling. If the car lacks what performance buyers desire, this is only it's first year, giving Chevrolet plenty of time to respond to consumer's demands.
The SRT-4 is a much better value from a performance standpoint, but the Cobalt may have more shiny things to get the buyer into the door.
Last edited by MisterSpoot; Oct 24, 2004 at 04:31 PM.
Originally Posted by MisterSpoot
Here's my whole take on the Cobalt.
----- -----
Prior to Chevy "americanizing" the Daewoo-origined Aveo, the only entry-level car Chevrolet really had was the Cavalier. Keep in mind the Cavalier was originally positioned to go head-to-head against the Tier-1 Japanese players such as the Corolla, Civic, and Sentra. This seemed fine and dandy, until the cutthroat South Koreans came along with some very low-priced models.
Granted, early 90's Hyundai's weren't anything great. They were akin to the Japanese cars of the late 70s/early 80s, however they were one thing: CHEAP. And American's are a bunch of skinflints, and despite quality issues, slowly began to consider offerings from Hyundai and other South Korean manufacturers. So at this point, lacking anything low-end on the Chevy brand (GM always had Saturn as the bottom rung), they decided to take cost-cutting measures to the Cavalier. Of course, after hacking so much out of it, it was no longer comparable to the Japanese, so it was reduced to a Korean-fighter.
And it did sell. Despite arguably the worst interiors in the industry, the J-platform (Sunbird/Sunfire, SkyHawk, J2000, etc.) essentially being a death trap, poor build quality, abysmal resale (high percentage of fleet sale), etc. the Cavalier earned itself a pretty bad reputation, and rightfully so. The only thing the car exceeded in was having thousands of dollars often taken off its already low price. Thank god for light truck sales funding the entire organization, huh Chevy?
So, Chevrolet brokered a deal with Daewoo to bring over the Aveo (GM has done this for years, going as far back as the Pontiac LeMans), in order to give the Chevy brand a "cheap" car to go against the growing strength of the Koreans, as well as other subcompacts like the Toyota Echo. Now, Chevrolet can attempt to properly aim the Cavalier at the Tier-1 Japanese economy cars since they can price the car several thousand dollars higher -- hopefully stepping up quality levels to something acceptable. Additionally, it's a new nameplate on a new platform (Delta, also used by the Opel Astra), so it doesn't carry the stigma of the Cavalier name (much like what MMCA did renaming the Mirage to Lancer in the US).
By default, the Cobalt should exceed the ION in all areas EXCEPT price (also compare the VUE to the Equinox). Saturn is GM's value brand, whereas Chevrolet is their "traditional" brand (Pontiac being slotted just below Chevrolet, and Cadillac being the premium brand). If you haven't noticed, ION build and interior quality is absolutely abysmal, hence considerable changes across the board to the vehicle for the 2005 model year. The cars may have the same output and suspension, but in the long run, the Cobalt should maintain higher resale value and should have improved overall quality -- though only time will tell.
GM seems to be amending their ways and is trying to once again be competitive with Toyota/Honda with its mainstay Chevrolet (and to a lesser extent, Pontiac) brands. Largely by improving interior quality and featureset while keeping prices on par or under the Japanese. The Cobalt will sell well no matter what -- lower price, similar features is enough to get the average Joe in the door.
----- -----
As for the performance of the SS, we'll see. This is the first year, so I would expect Chevrolet is looking for consumer feedback in addition to seeing where sales numbers are. At least in the ION, the car crashes into the rev-limiter while still building power, which it apparently has difficulties putting to the ground as it is. Additionally, lack of a limited-slip differental will limit handling capabilities, though at least Chevrolet thought enough to use equal-length half-shafts to reduce torque steer. Brakes could be beefier as well. Though it looks like the car will handle as well as a stock SRT-4.
But, the Cobalt will sell well, because at least marketing did their research about what the average race-driver wannabe, or something just looking for a bit of kick and sporty attitude, wants. 18" alloy wheels with low-profile tires, sunroof, a decent sound system with MP3 playback, keyless entry, shiny interior accent bits, leather (albeit cheap), and aggressive styling. If the car lacks what performance buyers despite, this is only it's first year, giving Chevrolet plenty of time to respond to consumer's demands.
The SRT-4 is a much better value from a performance standpoint, but the Cobalt may have more shiny things to get the buyer into the door.
----- -----
Prior to Chevy "americanizing" the Daewoo-origined Aveo, the only entry-level car Chevrolet really had was the Cavalier. Keep in mind the Cavalier was originally positioned to go head-to-head against the Tier-1 Japanese players such as the Corolla, Civic, and Sentra. This seemed fine and dandy, until the cutthroat South Koreans came along with some very low-priced models.
Granted, early 90's Hyundai's weren't anything great. They were akin to the Japanese cars of the late 70s/early 80s, however they were one thing: CHEAP. And American's are a bunch of skinflints, and despite quality issues, slowly began to consider offerings from Hyundai and other South Korean manufacturers. So at this point, lacking anything low-end on the Chevy brand (GM always had Saturn as the bottom rung), they decided to take cost-cutting measures to the Cavalier. Of course, after hacking so much out of it, it was no longer comparable to the Japanese, so it was reduced to a Korean-fighter.
And it did sell. Despite arguably the worst interiors in the industry, the J-platform (Sunbird/Sunfire, SkyHawk, J2000, etc.) essentially being a death trap, poor build quality, abysmal resale (high percentage of fleet sale), etc. the Cavalier earned itself a pretty bad reputation, and rightfully so. The only thing the car exceeded in was having thousands of dollars often taken off its already low price. Thank god for light truck sales funding the entire organization, huh Chevy?
So, Chevrolet brokered a deal with Daewoo to bring over the Aveo (GM has done this for years, going as far back as the Pontiac LeMans), in order to give the Chevy brand a "cheap" car to go against the growing strength of the Koreans, as well as other subcompacts like the Toyota Echo. Now, Chevrolet can attempt to properly aim the Cavalier at the Tier-1 Japanese economy cars since they can price the car several thousand dollars higher -- hopefully stepping up quality levels to something acceptable. Additionally, it's a new nameplate on a new platform (Delta, also used by the Opel Astra), so it doesn't carry the stigma of the Cavalier name (much like what MMCA did renaming the Mirage to Lancer in the US).
By default, the Cobalt should exceed the ION in all areas EXCEPT price (also compare the VUE to the Equinox). Saturn is GM's value brand, whereas Chevrolet is their "traditional" brand (Pontiac being slotted just below Chevrolet, and Cadillac being the premium brand). If you haven't noticed, ION build and interior quality is absolutely abysmal, hence considerable changes across the board to the vehicle for the 2005 model year. The cars may have the same output and suspension, but in the long run, the Cobalt should maintain higher resale value and should have improved overall quality -- though only time will tell.
GM seems to be amending their ways and is trying to once again be competitive with Toyota/Honda with its mainstay Chevrolet (and to a lesser extent, Pontiac) brands. Largely by improving interior quality and featureset while keeping prices on par or under the Japanese. The Cobalt will sell well no matter what -- lower price, similar features is enough to get the average Joe in the door.
----- -----
As for the performance of the SS, we'll see. This is the first year, so I would expect Chevrolet is looking for consumer feedback in addition to seeing where sales numbers are. At least in the ION, the car crashes into the rev-limiter while still building power, which it apparently has difficulties putting to the ground as it is. Additionally, lack of a limited-slip differental will limit handling capabilities, though at least Chevrolet thought enough to use equal-length half-shafts to reduce torque steer. Brakes could be beefier as well. Though it looks like the car will handle as well as a stock SRT-4.
But, the Cobalt will sell well, because at least marketing did their research about what the average race-driver wannabe, or something just looking for a bit of kick and sporty attitude, wants. 18" alloy wheels with low-profile tires, sunroof, a decent sound system with MP3 playback, keyless entry, shiny interior accent bits, leather (albeit cheap), and aggressive styling. If the car lacks what performance buyers despite, this is only it's first year, giving Chevrolet plenty of time to respond to consumer's demands.
The SRT-4 is a much better value from a performance standpoint, but the Cobalt may have more shiny things to get the buyer into the door.
Evolved Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 574
Likes: 0
From: New Bedford, MA
The SS is different strokes for different folks. Focusing more on appearance than performance. So it's of higher value to customers other than your typical WRX and SRT-4 shopper.
And as I edited, the HP numbers for the ION are underrated. The car really puts out more like 220-225HP, so I expect Chevy to boldly claim that the Cobalt is more powerful to distance it from the ION. Since the ION's numbers aren't overrated, they aren't cheating those buyers by giving an underrated numbers. I fully expect them to do this.
-----
UPDATE: Oh and yeah, I've had the dumb Cavalier on the brain recently. Some guy at work tried to argue with me that it's a great car. This is a guy who was driving a 1982 Dodge RAM van and an 84 Reliant -- and couldn't comprehend why he would get a flat tire (a $20 tire at that) fixed or replaced instead of filling it with air twice a day. I ended up doing my homework to back up my claim that the entire J-platform was a joke.
And as I edited, the HP numbers for the ION are underrated. The car really puts out more like 220-225HP, so I expect Chevy to boldly claim that the Cobalt is more powerful to distance it from the ION. Since the ION's numbers aren't overrated, they aren't cheating those buyers by giving an underrated numbers. I fully expect them to do this.
-----
UPDATE: Oh and yeah, I've had the dumb Cavalier on the brain recently. Some guy at work tried to argue with me that it's a great car. This is a guy who was driving a 1982 Dodge RAM van and an 84 Reliant -- and couldn't comprehend why he would get a flat tire (a $20 tire at that) fixed or replaced instead of filling it with air twice a day. I ended up doing my homework to back up my claim that the entire J-platform was a joke.
Last edited by MisterSpoot; Oct 24, 2004 at 04:33 PM.
Evolving Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 218
Likes: 0
From: Jackson, MS
The Cobalt looks like it would make a good meal for an Evolution owner. Honda has been getting 200 hp out of non-turbo 2.0's for years now. Nothing special here. Although I applaud Chevy for entering the sport campact market with a forced induction offering.
Evolved Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 574
Likes: 0
From: New Bedford, MA
I don't know if I'd applaud them.
The move is largely reactionary. Just about every other normal brand has a sport compact EXCEPT Chevrolet. Heck, even Hyundai had a near 180HP Tiburon, and Ford with the SVT Focus (nevermind the RS in Europe).
I see the move as trying to ensure they don't completely miss a currently popular market segment in which they could attempt to gain brand loyalty with young buyers. They needed to get more kids in the door is what it boiled down to.
The move is largely reactionary. Just about every other normal brand has a sport compact EXCEPT Chevrolet. Heck, even Hyundai had a near 180HP Tiburon, and Ford with the SVT Focus (nevermind the RS in Europe).
I see the move as trying to ensure they don't completely miss a currently popular market segment in which they could attempt to gain brand loyalty with young buyers. They needed to get more kids in the door is what it boiled down to.
Evolving Member
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
From: Cartersville, GA
Originally Posted by Turbo Ghost
This was at the SEMA show in 2002. Why did they reduce the hp?
I wonder if they have a SS without the bling wheels?
Edit: Forgot to add those 19's are fugginugly too.
