yeah uh huh...right.....
so with your logic the mini cooper, itr, etc... are inferior??

 

I hear of these stories of Celicas beating BMW M3's, Trans Ams with MODS, etc ....

I've driven a Trans AM STOCK with AUTOMATIC...

I've driven a Celica GTS 6-speed.

I'm smart enough to know the TA will eat the GTS for a snack.

Saying you beat an SC400? I'm sorry, THEY WERE NOT RACING YOU, NO WAY. I've heard these stories before. The guy is just driving along and you pull up and you're all like REVVVV REVVV REVVV OOOO I'm RACING and eventually you go way past the posted speed limit and you WON THE RACE!!!

News flash .. they weren't racing you.

 

Actually, no. I never instigate races. A stock SC400 is a low 14 second car at best and I have ran them always from a roll. But what do you know? You drive a saturn. I don't know why you come to the celica board with the intent to purchase one and go to other boards and make up lies about celica owners. Every post you make just makes your stupidity that much more obvious.

 

I love it when I back any Celica owner into a wall they resort to name calling. Yes I drive a Saturn, so? I've also SOLO II'ed and road raced and I know that my car is not a fast car, but I've had fun in it. I've saved for a new car and I have been doing my research on the internet for years. I've also test driven them. I am on MANY car boards, I am just CelicaDetective on NewCelica and I told you that because you were all crying about this post.

Comparing the celica to the EVO is like comparing the Geo Storm to a Viper. Just stop it! Please!

The EVO is a great performance bargain and I don't need the flashy looks of the Celica.

 

flashy looks eh?
i think they look stubby. racey, but it's too short. that's one of the reasons i didn't buy one in '99 when i went car shopping. when i'm driving i want to be comfortable, and it was just too shallow of a driving area for me.
who am i to judge tho, ya know?

i'm open for any rips about my ride or whatever. i think to each his own and if some celica stock says they beat a trans-am stock, then maybe they did. who really cares. to each his own, ya know?

 

How much did the Hotchkis setup cost? I mean, isn't this the same reasoning that makes tuned Civics and CRX's such track terrors? Real coilovers usually cost at least a grand, I wouldn't call this minor tuning
in the least, especially if it is factory sponsored car. Why not let the EVO
be tuned by TIEN or Apex'i and then redo the test. Stock vs. modified doesn't prove much, its interesting, but that's about it. We're kinda on the same team, though, when modded cheap imports start out lapping Italian or German supercars, or Vette's and Vipers, then we can all be proud.

 

it costs around $2k or so (give or take depending on where you get it, and if you install it yourself, etc.) for their TVS (total vehicle suspension). and on top of that, the main idea is that you can totally adjust a lot of settings, so the driver has to know their **** to properly tune the suspension to the track (like Hotchkis did at Buttonwillow).

the EVO is in another league, another demographic, hell another car category (sedan vs. coupe). SCC even called it a 'supercar'. there's no way you should even compare them stock to stock. it's just a credit to the celica that with just a new suspension, it puts out some crazy numbers on a track. that's what it was made for, built in the image of the Honda FF Type R cars, it rips up a track but is hindered by all the stuff that makes it a streetable car.

the EVO is made for rally, but also limited track use. if you want to compare a celica to that, get a Celica GT4 from the early 90s, and put a few grand into it (again, you can't compare stock to stock and expect anything, because the GT4 isn't a supercar, a credit to toyota that they made their WRC champion into (or out of) a normal 'cheap' sport compact that was also available in the states). but one thing that car probably did have that would be considered an advantage is the 3S-GTE engine, that engine can take incredible amounts of power before you need to change internals. not unlike the 2JZ-GTE Supras of the time. toyota used to build fantastic turbocharged engines.

the scary thing is, while the Hotchkis Celica was lapping faster than the EVO VII, they were both lapping significantly faster than some Porsches, Z06s, M3s, etc. Hell, even faster than Hyundai's new WRC Tiburon.

if you totally rehauled the EVO into a pure track car, it could probably tie or beat a car tuned to similar to Hotchkis' car easily. most likely, it would just require the celica to start modifying the engine. you can only go so far with 180hp. if TRD ever gets done with the n/a parts for the 2ZZ-GE so it can live up to the original n/a 4-cyl toyota wonder (the 4A-GE which Toyota uses in their Atlantic series for CART, destroked to 1.5l, making 240hp @ 11,000rpm), then maybe we'd have a real pure race car comparison on our hands.

but to the people who are really surprised by the celica's results on the track, don't be. the EVO is what? $25k in japan? that's a little more than the celica is. they're really not that far from each other in terms of what they're capable of on a track. it's just the celica was a mass production daily driver street car, not a 'Type R' like some of the hondas which are similar in format to the celica (high revving FF). the EVO is like a WRX STi, and the Celica is made to compete with a WRX. get it? and over here at least, for road racing, autox, etc. The Celica, even stock, is a capable performer that will give the WRX a run for it's money. Dump a few grand into each, and the Celica runs away from the WRX on a road course (similar to what SCC did, their EVO trounced a base WRX that was tuned, and then in turn, trounced by the hotchkis car). however, if you're DRAG RACING, then the WRX is leaps and bounds ahead of the Celica, and so are the EVO and STi. Toyota just shows that you don't need massive horsepower to be quick on a circuit. Honda does this too. Toyota's been doing it since the days of the original MR2 and the old AE86, while Honda's taken the limelight in the 90s with the Type R cars.

it's really cool how diversified imports are, no?

 

wait how is this (insert into a notepad document, and save as whatever.html and open in a web browser): good for visually relating how the cars are made to compete i think

<html>
<body>
<table>
<tr>
<td><b>Mass Production $30k and under cars</td>
<td><b>Purpose-Built Limited Production versions of $20k-$30k cars</td>
<td><b>Mass Production Sports Cars</td>
<td><b>Purpose-Built RACE CAR versions of Sports Cars</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>WRX <i>(rally/street)</td>
<td>WRX STi <i>(rally/track)</td>
<td>Chevrolet Corvette <i>(track)</td>
<td>WRC WRX STi <i>(rally)</td>
</tr>
<td>Lancer <i>(street)</td>
<td>Lancer EVO <i>(rally/track)</td>
<td>Porsche 911 <i>(track)</td>
<td>WRC Lancer EVO <i>(rally)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Acura RSX <i>(track/street)</td>
<td>Acura RSX Type R <i>(track)</td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Ford Mustang <i>(drag/street)</td>
<td>Mustang Cobra R <i>(drag/street/track)</td>
<td></td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<td>Toyota Celica <i>(track/street)</td>
<td></td>
<td>Toyota MR2 Spyder <i>(track)</td>
<td>Axxis Tuning MR2 Spyder <i>(track)</td>
</tr>
<td>Hyundai Tiburon <i>(track/street)</td>
<td></td>
<td>Mazda Miata <i>(track)</td>
<td>WRC Hyundai Tiburon <i>(rally)</td>
</tr>
</table>

obviously i left a lot of cars out, but i was in a rush. the goal of modifying a car is to compete with other cars in different 'areas' or higher levels. you can modify a WRX to challenge on a rally course, and modify a Celica to challenge on a track. The EVO however has some track capability right off the bat. but the celica was MADE for the track, so when you modify it like hotchkis did, it will have an advantage, as you can see from their results. until you modify the EVO for track racing.

however, there are obvious differences. i think the celica is just a great car, it broke SCC's records for Slalom, Braking, and almost skidpad. the previous record holder for slalom was the axxis tuning mr2 spyder, a full out race car. and all they did was modify the celica for more competitive racing on a track. and it outlapped everything else with regards to mass production sports cars.

NOTE: the MR2 Spyder and Miata are weird. they're under $30k mass production all-out sports cars.

 

Very good points.

The diversity is what makes imports so exciting, but you have to do cross comparisons sometimes, we don't get enough examples to make the tests "fair" I guess. If Mitsubishi still made the FTO (and sold it here), or if the current Eclipse GTS were more nimble, it would be okay to do an article with the RSX Type S, the FTO GPX-R, and the Celica GTS to see who makes the best FF NA car. But by putting in an EVO and only showing the one test which makes the Celica look good over it is interesting, but only shows one small piece of what each car has to offer.

 

exactly. if we really wanted these two cars compared for CIRCUIT racing, we need two teams, with a celica and an evo, both modified to their utmost potential for circuit racing (suspension and engine) and put them together on a track, with good drivers behind the wheels.

unfortunately, this isn't japan where people can do this sorta thing for fun, so we're learning new things as we go along and everyone does their own thing

i can already make a prediction as to what the outcome would be. on some tracks the EVO would win (probably most, since most tracks are beneficial to higher power/torque cars), and on some where the emphasis is on carrying/maintaining high speeds and cornering really quickly, the celica would win (not as many) and probably put up a good fight on the others. that's just my opinion though

 

I like these Celica people. They're on top of things!

I think you all brought up good points. To avoid speaking for those who don't wish to be spoken for I'd have to say I'm impressed with the capabilities of the new Celicas. Again, I don't care much for their styling, but every one I've driven with (I'm not much of a racer but I like to play with people on the roads ) has been more than capable as far as speed and handling. Anywho...I forgot where I was going with this. Going to work is becoming a serious distraction to posting.

 

work sucks, just stay at home and do all this stuff in the comfort of your living room with a PS2 and a copy of Gran Turismo 3. that game kicks ***, it's almost like living in Japan i swear it's made for people who can't afford to modify their cars in reality.

EDIT: Hotchkis is selling that celica that was in that comparison. they now have a new celica that is sporting a supercharger. can't wait to see what they can do with that