I would pick a miata or a DSM. I dont think you can go wrong with either. I love the miata but since you want something awd, turbo and your familiar with the 4g63 I would go with a DSM.

 

If I were you I would consider doing one of two things, either keep the EVO and set aside a VERY small budget for mods and drive responsibly to help conserve your wear and tear items OR get rid of the car and buy something that is cheap and not mod at all.

If you're looking to buy a house AND pay for a wedding, you're going to need to focus on freeing up your D:I ratio and revolving credit balances to qualify for a mortgage and afford what you cannot pay for in cash.

 

My only debt is my car note and rent until my lease is up on the house I'm renting. All credit cards completely paid off. I'm already saving a lot, the left over portion is what I'm playing around with. Thanks for the advice though.

Again a Miata or DSM sounds like fun. I'm kinda leaning towards the DSM unless I can find an Miata that already has a turbokit. Now I'm just going to start listing my IX for sale and see who wants it in the coming weeks. I'm about 70/30 split on the DSM vs Miata.

Any particular preference on the DSM? 1G, 2G, Eclipse or Talon? Just down to looks, weight, and slightly different front suspension right? I definitely have more searching to do as well.

 

I actually prefer Eagle's just because they are rarer and most people don't know what they are.

It will be hard enough finding a decent 2g, but I'd say if a passable 1g comes along, jump on that. There aren't many decent examples around of either.

 

This is something I've been giving some thought to lately. Myself and a few of my friends as we "get older" and realize dumping our paychecks into a car that has already cost us 25k+ isn't fiscally sound. One of my buddies got himself a c5 vette and did some light work to it, boom - lots of fun for cheapish.

Another one grabbed a 3000GT VR4 and stripped it down and put some work into it (You can drop 300-400lbs off those cars easily too)

I was thinking of something similar. Problem is it would have to be reliable as at this point in my life I can't be bothered working on my car all the time. I'm huge into rx7's, always wanted to own one.. but it would need to be swapped. That makes it considerably more expensive.

I honestly think if it's just a throwaway fun car, and you don't mind getting your hands dirty.. it has to be 1g DSM. Similar to the vr4's you can drop a ton of weight from them stripping them down, make power very easily, and are cheap.

 

I didn't even think about that aspect. First, because wtf is snow? I'm from Arizona! 2nd, because I assumed it was going to be primarily a "fun" car and not a DD.

Unfortunately, the fanboy crowd has outgrown their Civics and moved into 240s

The RX-7 is another good candidate for a V8 swap. Like I mentioned, the LT and LS are extremely similar in terms of the swap itself. Performance of the LT isn't as good as the LS but it's still a V8!

The main issue with the DSMs is crank walk on the 2nd gens as far as I know. I never got too into the DSM scene, so there may be more to it but an old neighbor had a 12 second street driven Eagle TSi and he said 90% of the bad rep was from crank walk. He drove the Eagle about 3-4 days of the week and I only saw it break down once. cinder block to the FMIC on I-10

 

Definitely go for the DSM. The biggest issues with crankwalk (which is where they got the bad wrap from) happend in the early 2g (1995). But with those cars being so old now, I would think that if the motor was going to crankwalk, it would have by now.

As far as reliability goes, I would say it's just as reliable as an evo. 4g63 motor and all. Just keep in mind you'd be buying a car that is almost 20 years old so things like bushings, motor mounts, a/c and stuff might need some tending to.

It will be hard to find a nice one though, cause like evos most people get them to mod them to the hilt! However parts on them are very common and very cheap now days, so fixing one up and even making it go 12s is no issue what so ever.

There is no difference between the Eagle Talon tsi awd and the eclipse GSX other than the front bumper, rear bumper and side skirts. I personally think the later body style 97-99 eclipse looks the best. But all that can be interchanged for cheap.

In Detroit, I don't know why you would even consider a RWD miata during the winter...

 

Yeah you guys have convinced me towards the DSM.

I found a few AWD gems left and hopefully I can find a buyer for my IX.

I still have a 4x4 Escape so the snow is not a concern. But having had AWD and enjoying what it can do in the rain and snow has made me rather picky.

How is the handling on the 2G's? They switched to a SLA front end and ditched the struts but the 1G had the stronger motor. I'm not really scared of crank walk and I plan to build the motor up anyways. Besides the crank walk issue they are not horrible on reliability right? With a solid motor and trans without launching it I should be fine right? How good is the stock turbo on those? Are there strong bolt-on turbos like the FP green/red/black for the Evo or will I need to buy a turbokit?

I know they are not in the same ball park as the Evo, but do they handle decently? I've never driven a DSM or rode in one. I'm just curious what I'm getting myself into.

If I can make it handle as good as a stock Evo IX I'll be happy. My Evo is mostly stock with TBE and a tune for the most part. I never launch it and don't plan to. Every once in awhile I'll go nuts on an on-ramp or take a turn really fast. I really enjoy tuning and writing tuning software. I noticed the DSM can run the Evo ECU so I'll probably make that one of my first mods so I can properly tune it.

In short the DSM is what I'm after I think. Unlike the Miata I can tune freely using the Evo ECU. I have AWD for days when it rains and snows if I'm not in the mood to drive the 4x4 truck. The stock power is lower than I'd like but breaking into the 12's would make me happy enough. Although it sounds like the Miata is the better handling car it's a compromise everywhere else and I have little need for a removable top. The DSM has more room inside as well.

So a DSM is what I want.... I just need to rid myself of the Evo now. I've yet to list it here because it's starting to snow and my previously taken pics don't have my forum name and the date. Maybe I'll get around to that now that I've made up my mind.

 

They aren't the best handling cars in the world, but I wouldn't say they are bad either. I'm sure with a good coilover and sway bars you could make it really nice. I've seen locals road race their DSMs and have had success.

As for reliability, I think they are just like any other car in terms of things breaking and needing to be fixed. I've owned 3 DSMs and nothing really stands out as breaking.

Sounds like you're more interested in the 2g DSM then the 1g. But here is the break down for you:

1990 DSM - 6 bolt motor ("strongest") but a weak 3 bolt rear end. It also had a different type of ECU that you could only tune if it was a 1990 Eprom which were rare. Personally I'd stay away from the 1990s.

1991 - Still 6 bolt motor and 3 bolt rear end

1992 - switched to projector headlights, same 6 bolt and 3 bolt rear end

1992.5 - 6 bolt motor with a 4 bolt rear end. This is the golden child that everyone wants, although a 4 bolt rear end can be swapped into any previous year

1993-1994 - 7 bolt motor (not prone to crankwalk) and 4 bolt rear end

1995 - starts 2g body style, Eprom ecu (which you can socket and install DSMlink on). 7 bolt motor (some crankwalked), 4 bolt rear end

1996 - same as 95 but no eprom ecu

1997 - switched body style again to be more aggressive, 7 bolt motor, 4 bolt rear end. Also did the cam angle sensor on the end of the cam by thermostat instead of under the cam gear like on the 95 and 95

1998 -1999 - same as 97 except I hear their ECU can be flashed with MMC. Also they did make a pure black interior on these which is highly sought after.

When you see people post 6/4 in a DSM it means 6 bolt motor and 4 bolt rear end. You can swap a 6 bolt into a 2g with some rewiring of the CAS. However the 7 bolt IMO has a stronger crankshaft.

You can swap an evo8 ecu into any of the 2g (OBDII) with just switching a few pins I believe. This might be the easiest thing to do coming from an evo and knowing how to use ECUflash. If you don't have a spare ECU, you can look into DSMlink. It is a really simple, easy to use, user friendly tuning program but will run you about 600 bucks (99% of DSMs use this).

The stock turbo on the 2g is a garrett t25 and is a complete POS. 1g uses a mitsu 14b which is smaller than a 16g but worlds better than a t25. However FP and others do make bolt on turbos for them. DSMs actually had the first green and red made for them. You can also go with something a little nicer like the FP3052, FP3065, or HTA86 if you want more power. They give you simplicity of stock bolt on, but in a SST cast exhaust housing flanged for a Tial 44mm.

Let me know if you have any other questions on them and I'll be more than happy to help.

 

Thanks a lot for your post. I'll definitely go with an Evo ECU. From a used perspective is there a major difference between 6/7 bolt if I'm shooting for 350-400wheel? I'll probably find a used Evo turbo to bolt up assuming it will fit. There's a bunch for sale locally for cheap.

I'm seeing a few project cars with missing parts and body panels. Are parts still easy to come by if I decide to buy a project car that's missing a bunch of parts? I see they made around 210hp stock... I guess I can live with that. It's basically like driving my Evo IX on 12psi wastegate pressure right?

I guess for the first time I'm somewhat looking forward to selling the IX. It looks like this will work for me as long as I can find a good one to start with. Buying a house is what I'm thinking about and I'm finally glad to find a compromise to have a fun car while saving for a house .

Thanks for all your input guys. A DSM it is!

 

I sold my evo to save more money and not have my project as a daily.....

Ive spent 16k in 6 months on my 240sx just to get it running(and a little extra)

If you have cars running through your veins you will find a way to spend the money.

That said I love the LSx or 2JZ 240sx idea.....there are so many parts our there its like shooting fish in a barrel

 

So I now have an interested buyer who is simply working on the financing part. We just came to an agreement on price yesterday. Assuming the sale goes through my Evo will be gone .

So after looking at DSMs I see some cars I want and some of them are just utter trash. Now that the Evo truly is going away I'm nervous I will not be happy with the DSM.

I'm losing the fast spooling MIVEC head. I'm losing the twin-scroll manifold. I'm losing the front LSD differential and the awesome ACD setup. Motor is flipped the other way. Suspension is not the same despite having a supposedly better SLA front end on the 2G. No more nice recaros and I'm wondering how the trans will feel compared to the Evo. Is the gearing as short? How is the shifter compared to the Evo? Sloppy or notchy? I see they have less synchros....

I guess I'm seriously nervous that my first ride in a DSM will be just horrible stepping out of my Evo 9. I still haven't rode in one yet and after looking at some of these junkers I'm really hoping I can find one that's a little more solid.

Please tell me I'm just over thinking this. I'm very scared because I hear how much better the Evo is in every way, especially the ACD Evo with MIVEC.

Will this thing be a horrible laggy setup on a flimsy chassis? I guess I'm just not sure how much the Evo 9 has spoiled me and I'm scared I won't like the DSM at all. I hate flip-flopping but I had a dream last night that I test drove a DSM and it was all loose and cheap feeling with almost no torque down low with a slow spooling turbo. Now all I can think about is that car in my dream which of course was not reality. But that's all I can think about now and I don't want a laggy car as much.

Please tell me I'm over thinking this..... I really need to find someone with a DSM and a few mods so I can see what I'm getting myself into. I assume I'm probably overreacting but that dream really made me wonder just how much worse than an Evo it will be. Just a little? A lot? Lightyears?

I know part of compromising is losing something, but am I losing too much that I won't even like the car? Did the Evo 9 spoil me with fast spooling handling ACD goodness? Don't tell me what I want to hear, cold hard truth please

 

Yeah you are going to lose a lot! A lot! But what do you expect? You are going from a car that costs 25k to one that costs 3k.

If you get a 2g, it has a quick spooling turbo cause it's so small. I wouldn't worry too much about the lag on them compared to the evo. Even if you swapped a evoIII 16g or the equivalent of the FP white (HTA68) you'll have a fast spooling car. For comparison, one of my good friends has a 2g DSM and ran a 12.4 at 110mph (in Denver at 5800ft) with the following:

Completely stock 7 bolt block (180k miles)
Completely stock head (same mileage)
FMIC
Evo III 16g
Intake
3"TBE
Walbro 255, FPR, injectors on e85

Transmissions don't feel bad. They aren't notchy at all like my evo (which is an X so it's super notchy). I actually miss the feel of my DSM tranny compared to the evo.

If you find one that is complete stock, it will feel slow and feel sloppy in handling. BUT, but, what else are you going to do with that kind of money? MX5 is just painfully slow, although it handles good. But even with that you'd probably want to invest a little in suspension so why not do the same with the DSM.

I recommend finding someone that doesn't have a hack job DSM to take a ride in. I think you'll be impressed in what a 15 year old car can do for under 5k.

 

Why do I see a Focus on the list, before an SRT-4!?

I personally own a e85 Evo 8 (~380whp), and a e85 50 trim srt4 (~460whp) and I must say that the SRT4 is just as fun as my Evo, but costs half the price.

These days, you can find a modded srt-4 for 6-7k, in decent condition.

Reliable, fast, cheap. It's got all 3 going for it!

You ever driven one?

 

For some reason the SRT-4 just doesn't appeal to me. Especially now that I'm looking at DSMs. No real good reason really. I've seen some really fast ones but I just don't like the car. I only lopped the Focus in there because I'm friends with numerous Ford powertrain engineers and engine calibrators who can hook me up with tuning software and some hand me down parts. They have a supercharged SVT and a Turbo SVT Focus running around Dearborn.