Smike's FRS Test Drive
Aug 30, 2012, 12:37 AM
#62
Good review Smike.
Compared to other cars like the 2013 Hyundai Genesis Coupe that is within the same price range, you get more bang for the buck with the Genesis.
In the end, it's an over hyped car. I've moved far away from Toyota "sports" cars after owning a Scion tC before and never got any of that driver feel that I do with my Evo. From growing up in a Toyota family, it's safe to say that Toyota can't make good sports cars anymore. I didn't even like it when it was on paper. 200HP with a Subaru based motor and it's even built in a Subaru factory? Come on Toyota.
Compared to other cars like the 2013 Hyundai Genesis Coupe that is within the same price range, you get more bang for the buck with the Genesis.
In the end, it's an over hyped car. I've moved far away from Toyota "sports" cars after owning a Scion tC before and never got any of that driver feel that I do with my Evo. From growing up in a Toyota family, it's safe to say that Toyota can't make good sports cars anymore. I didn't even like it when it was on paper. 200HP with a Subaru based motor and it's even built in a Subaru factory? Come on Toyota.
Aug 30, 2012, 12:39 AM
#63
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Originally Posted by DragonEye
Sorry to rain on the parade and all, but the BRZ/FRS was never meant to be powerful, as with the original AE86, it was meant to be a fun RWD car in an entry level segment. They did however make it “sporty” by giving it an above average HP, keeping it light weight, and giving it a sporty suspension. In all reality it is basically a practical S2000/Miata with a back seat and hard top which in the price range it’s in it is still fairly competitive. As far as the lack of kick back in the seat comment, find me a production car with a high revving low displacement naturally aspirated motor that does that and I’ll eat my shoes. All in all if you’re looking for a fun car that’s stock that is light weight, good gas milage, sporty, RWD, and can be a comphy DD/ weekend racer. I’d say they hit the nail on the head.
I’m not saying that the car isn’t priced a bit high, which if it were brought down $2,000 from what it is, I would pick one up in a heart-beat, then fix those tail lights that are hideous. Personally I’d pick up the BRZ for a DD as the difference in the interior is quite large and it is really comfortable. (mmm heated seats in the winter)
Sorry to rain on the parade and all, but the BRZ/FRS was never meant to be powerful, as with the original AE86, it was meant to be a fun RWD car in an entry level segment. They did however make it “sporty” by giving it an above average HP, keeping it light weight, and giving it a sporty suspension. In all reality it is basically a practical S2000/Miata with a back seat and hard top which in the price range it’s in it is still fairly competitive. As far as the lack of kick back in the seat comment, find me a production car with a high revving low displacement naturally aspirated motor that does that and I’ll eat my shoes. All in all if you’re looking for a fun car that’s stock that is light weight, good gas milage, sporty, RWD, and can be a comphy DD/ weekend racer. I’d say they hit the nail on the head.
I’m not saying that the car isn’t priced a bit high, which if it were brought down $2,000 from what it is, I would pick one up in a heart-beat, then fix those tail lights that are hideous. Personally I’d pick up the BRZ for a DD as the difference in the interior is quite large and it is really comfortable. (mmm heated seats in the winter)
All toyota had to do was uprate their 4A-GE 20v black top and its over. Instead they wasted money with subaru for this engine on this "entry level" sports car. The 4A-GE is ~ 170 hp. Im sure they can squeeze some more out of that, making it better than the surbaru engine AND for less cost. They cannot be winning on a joint venture for a car that was over hyped and under sold. All this while you cant even go to a dealership and buy the car, because there are none! Order it and wait 8 months, who wants to do that??? Outsourcing the engine.....longer production time.
Last edited by SaulHudson; Aug 30, 2012 at 12:45 AM.
Aug 30, 2012, 05:58 AM
#64
Good review Smike.
Compared to other cars like the 2013 Hyundai Genesis Coupe that is within the same price range, you get more bang for the buck with the Genesis.
In the end, it's an over hyped car. I've moved far away from Toyota "sports" cars after owning a Scion tC before and never got any of that driver feel that I do with my Evo. From growing up in a Toyota family, it's safe to say that Toyota can't make good sports cars anymore. I didn't even like it when it was on paper. 200HP with a Subaru based motor and it's even built in a Subaru factory? Come on Toyota.
Compared to other cars like the 2013 Hyundai Genesis Coupe that is within the same price range, you get more bang for the buck with the Genesis.
In the end, it's an over hyped car. I've moved far away from Toyota "sports" cars after owning a Scion tC before and never got any of that driver feel that I do with my Evo. From growing up in a Toyota family, it's safe to say that Toyota can't make good sports cars anymore. I didn't even like it when it was on paper. 200HP with a Subaru based motor and it's even built in a Subaru factory? Come on Toyota.
I'd love to see the A3 from Toyota on why they decided on their setup.
You've got to be kidding. The AE86 had 130 HP at 2000-2200 lbs, in the MID 80s. We are in 2012.
All toyota had to do was uprate their 4A-GE 20v black top and its over. Instead they wasted money with subaru for this engine on this "entry level" sports car. The 4A-GE is ~ 170 hp. Im sure they can squeeze some more out of that, making it better than the surbaru engine AND for less cost. They cannot be winning on a joint venture for a car that was over hyped and under sold. All this while you cant even go to a dealership and buy the car, because there are none! Order it and wait 8 months, who wants to do that??? Outsourcing the engine.....longer production time.
All toyota had to do was uprate their 4A-GE 20v black top and its over. Instead they wasted money with subaru for this engine on this "entry level" sports car. The 4A-GE is ~ 170 hp. Im sure they can squeeze some more out of that, making it better than the surbaru engine AND for less cost. They cannot be winning on a joint venture for a car that was over hyped and under sold. All this while you cant even go to a dealership and buy the car, because there are none! Order it and wait 8 months, who wants to do that??? Outsourcing the engine.....longer production time.
Aug 30, 2012, 07:37 AM
#65
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finally a respectable person with non-biased views on this overrated metal box
I can not stand the hype around this car. at. all. it amazes me how stupid the general population is
seriously 26k is not cheap these days. I can't get over it's cost.
it doesn't put out results, so it's one of those "fun" cars. I get that
but seriously if the point is only driver enjoyment fun, why spend 26 ****ing thousand dollars. get a used miata or s2000 (etc). same effect for half (or less) the price. I can't get over how much money they want for this crap, and how Subaru is making it out to be soooo special with limited production
it's just a front engine, RWD coupe. it's nothing special FFS. the whole argument of "they don't make cars like this anymore" just blows my mind from stupidity overload. I love how people completely overlook WHY RWD coupes fell out of production in the first place - you can get so much performance from more practical cars these days. this 26k+ piece of metal that is fundementally NO different
god I could go on all day at how stupid I think people are for hyping this car so much. 26k buys you so much these days
I can not stand the hype around this car. at. all. it amazes me how stupid the general population is
seriously 26k is not cheap these days. I can't get over it's cost.
it doesn't put out results, so it's one of those "fun" cars. I get that
but seriously if the point is only driver enjoyment fun, why spend 26 ****ing thousand dollars. get a used miata or s2000 (etc). same effect for half (or less) the price. I can't get over how much money they want for this crap, and how Subaru is making it out to be soooo special with limited production
it's just a front engine, RWD coupe. it's nothing special FFS. the whole argument of "they don't make cars like this anymore" just blows my mind from stupidity overload. I love how people completely overlook WHY RWD coupes fell out of production in the first place - you can get so much performance from more practical cars these days. this 26k+ piece of metal that is fundementally NO different
god I could go on all day at how stupid I think people are for hyping this car so much. 26k buys you so much these days
Aug 30, 2012, 08:03 AM
#67
The thing that ruins this car for me is that the first gen S2000 had 240 horsepower when it came out in 2000. Granted it cost at least $5,000 more than the BR-Z but it also came out nearly 15 years ago. Exact same concept really. NA, RWD, 2800ish pounds. Never meant to be a powerful car but even then they realized that 200 horsepower wasn't enough.
Kinda makes it seem like Toyota/Subaru are out of touch with what is going on in the market. Sad to say but same thing with the Evo/STi hovering at 300 horsepower while the Mustang GT went from 300 to like 420 in the same period. Oh well.
Kinda makes it seem like Toyota/Subaru are out of touch with what is going on in the market. Sad to say but same thing with the Evo/STi hovering at 300 horsepower while the Mustang GT went from 300 to like 420 in the same period. Oh well.
Aug 30, 2012, 01:16 PM
#72
Smike- I looked for you on AIM to ask if I can haz threadjack, but you weren't there, so I'm assuming you don't care. If you do, I'll just move it to my own thread.
My FR-S review:
I have waited and waited and waited for the darned dealer to get a manual one of these. After seeing this review, I looked online, and what do you know, they got two in stock yesterday!
They were so fresh, the radio wasn't even installed yet, but the salesman knows that I have been waiting for a long time, so we didn't let a little thing like that deter us from taking it out.
One thing of note, both cars had $5000 body kit add ons, running the bill up to $30k! No thanks on that, for sure. I can think of an infinite amount of things I'd rather have with that amount of money than a tack on body kit.
My review is going to be the Yang to Smike's Yin on this, because I actually really liked the car. I was tempted to comment earlier, but without actual seat time, I knew it would be bench racing, and chose to wait until I had driven one.
I like the exterior of these cars a lot. They look sporty without looking gaudy, and shouldn't attract too much negative attention.
I've commented elsewhere on the interior of this car, but it bears repeating here. The backseat is almost nonexistent. I think whichever one of the kids sits behind me would be really cramped. The seat material is not very high quality, but it's not so different than the Evo X in that regard. It looks kind of like a microfiber. Probably would be a bear to keep clean. The support of the front seats is wonderful- Not full Evo Recaro wonderful, but really good for a car you can buy off a lot. Unlike Smike, I liked the dash and gauge configuration very much. I think it is sporty, and the seating position in relation to gauge viewing is very good.
Let's get the other somewhat undesirable bit out of the way first, the engine. Due to years of driving and being around unequal length header turbo Subarus, I almost wanted to stop the car and pop the hood to be sure there really wasn't an inline engine under there. It just doesn't sound like what I've come to expect from a boxer Subaru engine at all, in the best way possible. I don't like the boxer rumble, so it sounded decent.
The engine revs freely, and I didn't feel the power warble in the middle that I've seen on so many dyno graphs. It climbs to redline nicely, but it doesn't do it very fast. Several years ago, I had a 200 HP Honda Prelude VTEC, and the power delivery is eerily similar to that. I think it would trap mid nineties in the quarter mile based on the butt dyno. I don't think the power would be a deal breaker in an inline engine, where changing cams isn't a big deal, but it might be in a boxer, because you might be wanting more and no way to take it there.
The transmission and clutch are very good. The gear spacing is nice, the clutch has just the right amount of effort for a sporty car at this power level, and upshifts are rewardingly "thunk-y", offering nearly perfect feel.
The first thing I did after starting the car was press and hold the traction control for 5 seconds to defeat it completely. That was a good thing, because it brings me to the best part of this car.
The chassis on this car is totally brilliant. Here is where Smike and I disagree. I can't for the life of me understand going from an Evo to solid axle, floaty, squirrelly Mustang, then into an FR-S, and not being able to admit that the handling is in a whole other league beyond other cars in this class. To me, there is nothing in the mid $25k range new that is even close to this car. You get rear wheel drive, a proper limited slip, completely defetable traction control, and point and shoot acumen of cars costing thousands more. While I admit the lack of weight has something to do with it, road placement with this car is precise to the point of being surgical.
Even with the limited power, you can bring the back end around without issue, but it does take a little bit of provocation, and it never detracts from the handling.
The brakes were fine, I never had cause to use them really hard, just some fun on cloverleafs and round abouts with a very cool car salesman.
As will all cars, the best way to decide if you like something or not is to drive it and your own opinion! Whether you like it's manners or find its power a bit lacking, I can promise the FR-S is a car that will give you a ton of data and make forming that opinion very easy.
Happy driving!
My FR-S review:
I have waited and waited and waited for the darned dealer to get a manual one of these. After seeing this review, I looked online, and what do you know, they got two in stock yesterday!
They were so fresh, the radio wasn't even installed yet, but the salesman knows that I have been waiting for a long time, so we didn't let a little thing like that deter us from taking it out.
One thing of note, both cars had $5000 body kit add ons, running the bill up to $30k! No thanks on that, for sure. I can think of an infinite amount of things I'd rather have with that amount of money than a tack on body kit.
My review is going to be the Yang to Smike's Yin on this, because I actually really liked the car. I was tempted to comment earlier, but without actual seat time, I knew it would be bench racing, and chose to wait until I had driven one.
I like the exterior of these cars a lot. They look sporty without looking gaudy, and shouldn't attract too much negative attention.
I've commented elsewhere on the interior of this car, but it bears repeating here. The backseat is almost nonexistent. I think whichever one of the kids sits behind me would be really cramped. The seat material is not very high quality, but it's not so different than the Evo X in that regard. It looks kind of like a microfiber. Probably would be a bear to keep clean. The support of the front seats is wonderful- Not full Evo Recaro wonderful, but really good for a car you can buy off a lot. Unlike Smike, I liked the dash and gauge configuration very much. I think it is sporty, and the seating position in relation to gauge viewing is very good.
Let's get the other somewhat undesirable bit out of the way first, the engine. Due to years of driving and being around unequal length header turbo Subarus, I almost wanted to stop the car and pop the hood to be sure there really wasn't an inline engine under there. It just doesn't sound like what I've come to expect from a boxer Subaru engine at all, in the best way possible. I don't like the boxer rumble, so it sounded decent.
The engine revs freely, and I didn't feel the power warble in the middle that I've seen on so many dyno graphs. It climbs to redline nicely, but it doesn't do it very fast. Several years ago, I had a 200 HP Honda Prelude VTEC, and the power delivery is eerily similar to that. I think it would trap mid nineties in the quarter mile based on the butt dyno. I don't think the power would be a deal breaker in an inline engine, where changing cams isn't a big deal, but it might be in a boxer, because you might be wanting more and no way to take it there.
The transmission and clutch are very good. The gear spacing is nice, the clutch has just the right amount of effort for a sporty car at this power level, and upshifts are rewardingly "thunk-y", offering nearly perfect feel.
The first thing I did after starting the car was press and hold the traction control for 5 seconds to defeat it completely. That was a good thing, because it brings me to the best part of this car.
The chassis on this car is totally brilliant. Here is where Smike and I disagree. I can't for the life of me understand going from an Evo to solid axle, floaty, squirrelly Mustang, then into an FR-S, and not being able to admit that the handling is in a whole other league beyond other cars in this class. To me, there is nothing in the mid $25k range new that is even close to this car. You get rear wheel drive, a proper limited slip, completely defetable traction control, and point and shoot acumen of cars costing thousands more. While I admit the lack of weight has something to do with it, road placement with this car is precise to the point of being surgical.
Even with the limited power, you can bring the back end around without issue, but it does take a little bit of provocation, and it never detracts from the handling.
The brakes were fine, I never had cause to use them really hard, just some fun on cloverleafs and round abouts with a very cool car salesman.
As will all cars, the best way to decide if you like something or not is to drive it and your own opinion! Whether you like it's manners or find its power a bit lacking, I can promise the FR-S is a car that will give you a ton of data and make forming that opinion very easy.
Happy driving!
it's because it relates to rules for rally.
Aug 30, 2012, 01:33 PM
#74
I havent driven one but since it was announced it didnt seem like it was going to be a mind blower to me.
The N/A boxer engine has always been a turd to me. Without a doubt I think if Subaru put a little STi technology to it it could definitely have potential. Unfortunately right now I think its a let down like how my '10 Genesis Coupe 2.0t turned out to be... at least for me personally.
The N/A boxer engine has always been a turd to me. Without a doubt I think if Subaru put a little STi technology to it it could definitely have potential. Unfortunately right now I think its a let down like how my '10 Genesis Coupe 2.0t turned out to be... at least for me personally.