Biggiesacks

I think maybe I chose my words poorly there or at least I have changed my view of it. I would replace aggressive with deceptive now. Tesla is getting a rep for that kind of thing.

deeman101

iTrader: (34)

Some insurance companies rate the model 3 pretty expensively because there is only one factory making any Tesla parts, things are on a huge back log, and there are very few Tesla approved body shops. That said mine rated it like basically any new car.

The car is perfect for autox. Basically 500awhp from a dead stop, instant response, precise handling and power delivery, etc. It did pretty well in USCC. This thing will really come alive when someone figures out how to tune power delivery between the motors and how to "overclock" it. Suspension and brake development is already well underway.

Honestly for enthusiasts....just ignore autopilot all together. It has been taking away from the accomplishments of the chassis, brakes, and powertrain teams that developed this car.

Dallas J

iTrader: (1)

Through USAA a Model 3 performance is a couple bucks less per month than my 14' Audi S4 it will replace. Its basically in the same category of luxury sporty car and same rough price point so that makes sense to me.

WarmMilk

iTrader: (1)

I see it the way deeman101 does below

If I owned a tesla I'd only ever use autopilot like intelligent cruise control on long highway drives or stop and go traffic, just for its braking and acceleration. I'd always keep my hands on the wheel.

Biggiesacks

ok, well if the answer is "well just don't use that feature and your good" then that's basically conceding that your wasting your money on all the tech built into the price of the car. It's also kind of a straw man considering it was just one of many concerns I laid out, and the easiest to just dismiss because "enthusiasts".

Dallas J

iTrader: (1)

The fully automated driving that changes lanes and takes exits is a pretty expensive option you could pay for, but we wont and I assume Deeman didnt either. The normal lane holding and holding pace on the free way seems pretty solid.

Lucas at ER has a M3P, or PUP is you're on the forums, and has vids from early on of him testing the lane holding around corners on back roads. He does have some goofing off while like eating a fast food burger in one I think. So far he says its been solid though still hard to fully trust when it comes to the wheel moving.

Biggiesacks

I get that the adaptive cruise control features, and their functionality, really have nothing to do with the performance of the model 3. I was just trying to give my opinion about Tesla's decisions about marketing and safety. It's really just a small part of my concerns with Tesla as a whole and not specific to the model 3.

Dallas J

iTrader: (1)

The wife has the same concern with all forms of self driving, regardless of tesla or other manufacturer. But Im thinking if shes on her own she may play with it just to try it out. I know I will cautiously see what its like.

WarmMilk

iTrader: (1)

I mean I'm not saying its right, just saying it wouldn't keep me from buying the car. Cause the danger here is other drivers using this feature, and that doesn't change whether I own a Tesla or not... overall I agree with you, I think the partial autonomous driving is pretty dangerous. I think it should be either pretty basic or full complete autonomous. As far as actually voting with my wallet goes, I'm not buying a Tesla anyway, so my wallet vote is a no. Just not really cause of this reason.

deeman101

iTrader: (34)

I definitely didn't put money down for full self driving. Great savings from not doing that. I'm glad I ordered it when they made the regular autopilot standard. It came with the best part which is basically adaptive cruise control + good lane keep (not ping-pong lane keeping). Great for when you need to open a bag of chips or dropped a water bottle. Otherwise I seldom use it. Neither does my wife.

Even if you never use autopilot the rest of autopilot hardware is actually a good thing. It has really good short range ultrasonic sensors that will actually give you a perimeter map and distance measurement as you park. Even for curbs #savethewheels. The autopilot cameras are also used for the FREE dash cam and parking cam feature which is the best in the business. It's a better "unnecessary" standard feature than the rear wiper on Evo 8/9s.

Biggiesacks

This vid just popped up on my feed. Pretty good, highlights some of my concerns with Tesla and their business practices. Still though after everything the guy is supportive of the brand and I admire his passion.

barneyb

I follow an Irish guy's blog that is mostly about cars. It sounds like electric vehicles there are already becoming common. It makes sense, the price of fuel is high and the country is small. But don't be caught away from home with range anxiety because their public charging system is already overburdened. Find a charging station and wait for a vacancy.

deeman101

iTrader: (34)

I'm in mid-western Canada which is close to the worst place for charging infrastructure north of Mexico (I'll admit arctic circle is worse). Until the last 2 years it would have been pretty limiting to own an EV. It still is if you can't use the Tesla superchargers. Now I'd describe it as "functional" in that I can get to most places I'd like to go. Definitely could be better. Northeast seaboard and west coast have tons of chargers and basically you're good. I'm not so much worried about range than charge location anxiety. Specifically Tesla chargers because the app setup, etc. of the generic EV chargers still eludes me. I tried one day for 10mins in the rain to charge at a ChargeHub charger....gave up. Model 3s have below quoted, but still fairly decent range. Better than an evo can do on a tank of gas. The V2 superchargers are definitely fast enough. I never felt like I was waiting around for the charge....in fact now I know I don't have THAT much time to go do something else because it charges so fast. If more than 50% of the charger stalls at a supercharger station is full then there is an idling fee once your car is done charging (the phone app updates you).

Last time I supercharged I rolled in with 2% and thought it would take an hour to get to 100%. Its supposed to charge slow below 10-15% and above 90% because of heat issues. 20-80% is easily 15-20mins. But 35mins into dinner I had to run out to move the car off the supercharger cause it was done charging. If anything, Teslas have lower than quoted range but faster than quoted charging times. Once VW's ionity network comes out the range talk may be futile. One of the tracks in Canada already have a Tesla charger on site and theres actually multiple Teslas lined up to use it. 1 full charge will probably give you three 15-20min sessions on a full track.

deeman101

iTrader: (34)

Just a quick update on this thing. Tesla as you may know keeps sending out a bunch of OTA updates. They usually update way more than just the stated changes. One thing I've been noticing is they're trying to improve the calibration on the stability control / eLSD. The current one....sucks. One annoying thing when leaving a stoplight in slippery conditions (ice basically) the car was understeering a lot. They now send most of the power to the rear wheel and only engage the front after a certain speed is reached. Thats definitely more fun in the snow but also more frustrating on ice....because I just sit there and spin the rears until I crawl over whatever the magic speed is before the fronts kick in. Tesla seriously needs to poach some BMW M dynamic engineers because the nerds in Silicon Valley don't seem to know what they're doing with this chassis.

The other issue is the lack of a true lsd. Which hurts this car more than almost any other car I know. The instant torque means one or the other wheel is going to instantly spin up every time you hit the throttle. The eLSD will try to brake each wheel to control that but an electronic way to do that just cannot keep up with how fast the torque hits. Its always a step behind and you just end up alternating which wheel is doing a peg leg burnout. My wife had trouble getting up my gently sloped driveway 3 times last month because of this, lol. This car is ripe for an aftermarket LSD. The new dyno mode means you can turn off all of the e-nannies (even track mode feels handicapped) but the lack of LSD will still be a big issue. Heres a video that shows that:

Construct

iTrader: (4)

I think it's more likely that they know exactly what they're doing, but you and I are not their primary target audience.

Really appreciate having your thoughts. Does the car let you choose if/when to apply an OTA update? Or does it happen automatically overnight and suddenly your car behaves differently?

Any other long-term thoughts or concerns? I have eyes on one of the Model 3 models as soon as my wife's 175,000 mile WRX finally dies. At this rate, that could be a few more years though.