Straight to the point -- the DC2 ITR is awesome. But I was thinking about it, it's the only Type-R we had for a long time, because the DC5 ITR never came out stateside, and the next Type-R (CTR) didn't come out until nearly 20 years later. But if the DC5 ITR had been released here, what impact do you think it would've had on the DC2 ITRs legacy, values, etc.?

I'm not saying the DC5 ITR is better, but it would've meant that there would've been more ITRs (in name) available for consumption, and perhaps that platform could've had its own dedicated following and built its own reputation in motorsport, despite some of the early criticisms of it lacking what made the DC2 ITR special (i.e. less human-intensive methods such as hand-polished parts, no more forged connecting rods), especially since it could've had a full year to roam around before the Evo and STI did, as the bugeye WRX wasn't track-oriented enough to pose a threat.

I was thinking of the CT9A Evo vs. CZ9A Evo -- both are great cars, and the newer ones definitely have improvements, but people seem to covet the older models a bit more for subjective reasons (such as its lighter, more tossable feel and more communicative steering, though of course its iron block helps, for the guys trying to get double the stock hp), yet both still have their place and have held their values very well, with the CT9As having held their values even better. So now imagine what those values would've been like, had the CZ9A never came out, and the Evo just stopped with the IX, at least in the US. Did no DC5 ITR have that effect on the DC2 ITR?

 

I think the DC2 vs DC5 is more in the suspension and power steering difference. The DC2 is much easier to get track ready than a 5, however the 5 seems more road going that the 2. The MacPerson on the 5 and where the PS connects isn't the greatest design and the rear suspension is limiting and takes more fabrication to really excel.

Also, the type S isn't a type R and which really sucks for USDM and I think plays into what you are asking about in terms of values (k20A vs K20A2 not being the same). That said, the K20A is far superior to the B18C. In the Honda world weight savings is key however, which is why the DC2 is more coveted it seems. Also, the DC2 front end is the most recognizable front end from a Honda, if not any car. It's hard to say, but a worthy conversation!

 

the DC5 has modified minivan suspension. its fine if you leave it in stock form, but if you modify it, it throws all the geometry so out of wack that its impossible to get it back unless you have suspension modeling software and the ability to build custom parts. I had one that I tracked for a little while, once I put coilovers on there the front suspension and steering never felt the same. the chassis of the DC5 is stiffer than the DC2, but the crap suspension design is a much bigger handicap. if you want a newer honda chassis, the 06+ Civic Si is the way to go, its still a McStrut front, but the moved the steering arm off the coilover so you don't get weird geometry issues. if you want something JDM-y, you can do the type r conversion... actually looks pretty good in my opinion.

long story short, the DC5 will never be as special or worth as much as the DC2.

 

I was talking more about the Type-R though. I know it’s the same chassis, but I’d assume that Honda tweaked the suspension on that one, since I remember reading it could still do lift-off oversteer, so it couldn’t have been that bad.

 

As an original owner of a 01 GSR Sedan and having quite a few DA integras, I prefer the DC2 myself. The DC2 ITR is an amazing machine, and I remember driving a few when new, and co-driving one with a friend in auto-x. It really is all that and bag of chips. It speaks to me more than the DC5.

 

the suspension design is still the same, Type-R or not. you still have the steering arm on the damper, thats what makes it a POS

if you leave it stock, its ok, cause honda spent hundred of hours getting all the geometry right. a stock suspension DC5R is prolly fun... you can do sway bars without messing things up... and of course engine mods.

 

Exactly the DC5-R only has sport tuned struts/springs. It's not like Evo vs Lancer model in which things are designed differently.

 

Other than the fact the K20 is a better engine with higher potential, I prefer the DC2 in every way. The RSX Type S was a complete misfire in my opinion in this country. Great engine, total meh at everything else. My expectation is that an RSX Type R would have not fared any better.

But man. The best Type R here are the new ones. I haven't driven an FL5 yet, but it has a lot of tire under it, for sure. The FK8 was a revelation. It drives like a total dream. I have heard the FL5 addresses most of the shortcomings (overheating and frequent gear grinds).

 

The FL5 is just so bland looking though. Looks more like a fixed up Crosstour than a CTR. Though obviously like you’ve said, everything I’ve read about how it drives has been very positive.