When one of your Conrad's says its the sellers responsibility after it ships then my comment fits just fine. They are not responsible on how the package shows up or if pieces are broken or missing. That is the carriers responsibility.

 

Yes, it will ultimately come down to the carrier; the question is whether it's the buyer or seller who must deal with the carrier. What several of us have been trying to explain is that the answer to this is the seller. When the buyer does not receive what he or she paid for, especially when shipping was included in the sale, then it's up to the seller to make things right. That will almost always involve the seller dealing with the carrier, but it's up to the seller to do this. The seller can also, of course, just make the buyer happy in some other way, such as send a partial refund, if the seller isn't in the mood to deal with the carrier. The one thing that the seller cannot do is throw up his or her hands and tell the seller to deal with the carrier. The parts were not delivered as promised. The seller has not (yet) completed his or her end of the bargain.

 

Lol so what is the issue? I said the seller should have it fully insured. If he didn't then he needs to make things right. I also said the seller should help the buyer resolve this dispute with the carrier.

I just disagree its the sellers responsibility once it leaves his hands. Unless it was not insured.

 

this is true, ups will accept the package as long as it's boxed, they don't care how it's boxed. I sent a crash beam a few weeks back and the box looked like it had been through world war 2 and back (but I didn't care because a crash beam isn't breakable lol). As soon as ups accepts your package in the condition that it is boxed, if insured, at that point IT IS THEIR RESPONSIBILITY to get there as described in what you put down in the "contents" and "value" field when doing the paperwork.

 

In other words, you disagree with one of the core concepts of selling and buying on-line. The seller is responsible until it reaches the buyer. Period. That's why insurance is protection for the seller, not the buyer. This is a well-established rule. See almost any on-line auction site, such as eBay. It's right there in black and white.

The only exception is when the buyer arranges the shipping.

 

if i sell you a coilover setup for 1000.00 and insure it for 1000.00 and you end up getting an empty box because the shipping company failed to maintain its condition threw transit i am not giving you your 1000.00 back. i am calling the shipping company along side you and they are paying you back. not me. that is not my responsibility to cover something i insured. once that box leaves my hands it is the shippers responsibility to get the package to you safely. again i insured the box. they knew i insured it. so they excepted the box, its insured content, and responsibly to deliver it. if the box shows up damaged then the BUYER has the right NOT to except it. which then it will go back to the seller to deal with. IF the buyer excepted the package then the shipping company is clear of any issues.

if i shipped it without insurance then AND ONLY THEN would i refund you and deal with the lose my self. but i only ship with insurance. so i do not have to worry about it. it is the shipping companies problem.

 

You can stop right there, because this just became a counter-factual hypothetical. I will not be buying anything from you.

Assuming the typical situation where the seller arranges the shipping, the buyer is obligated to answer questions, take pictures, etc, when the seller files a claim with the shipper. But the seller owes the buyer his or her money back for whatever didn't arrive as advertized. It up to the seller to recover any loss from the shipper. Those are the rules on eBay and every other on-line buying/selling site that I know of.

We're going in circles. We both know what the other person is saying. I can back up what I'm saying with things like: http://pages.ebay.com/help/pay/shipping-problems.html What do you have to back up your claim that it's not the seller's responsibility to get the item into the buyer's hands?

 

i do not mind if you do not buy from me. it will not bother me one bit. my feedback says i take care of anyone who deals with me. more so then most and far more then i need to.

what your telling me is if i sell you something, insure it and it shows up damaged or missing then you expect me to refund you your money back. if that was the case then every single person would buy from you, take the parts out of the box and then tell you that you sent them a box of air and want a refund. matter of fact. do you have anything for sale? id like to buy everything you own.

again. if the buyer sells you something, from a box of cookies to a one off Michal Jackson signed pair of gloves and it shows up incomplete or damaged AND IT IS INSURED then it is the shipping companies responsibility. not the seller's. i dont give a **** what EBAY says. EBAY sucks. and here is a prime example.

i bought a 60.00 part off someone it showed up NOT WORKING PROPERLY. i filed a claim with video, pics and 40 messages from the seller showing this product does not work. EBAY said they found the case to be on the sellers side because it did show up and works. so i got screwed 60 bucks on something that did not work properly. but because it turns on means it works good enough. give me a break.

also now that you have pissed me off i was ripped off 2 times on this forum. both times i messaged one of the so called mods on this site. not once did you people follow up with me, check to see if it was resolved and AFAIK did not even message the jerk off who ripped me off. this thread is not about me or you.

the bottom line is did the seller insure the package? if yes then a claim needs to be made with the shipping company. which is what i said. and the buyer should help the seller with that. the seller should not have to eat that cost. if NO then the seller needs to buy the buyer a new set of tools.

 

Correct. That's how it works. But to be clear: you are only responsible for refunding that part of what was paid for the missing or damaged parts.

Correct. You could do that. It is one of myriad crimes that you could commit against me. You could also drive to my house and simply steal my car. What stops you from doing that?

[I'll skip replying to the rest of your post as it's a rehash of what we've already covered.]

 

My name is not Conrad, and I am most definitely not one of Iowa999's possessions.


If you enter into a contract with someone, include shipping in the price, and agree to arrange the shipping, your responsibility ends when the customer takes delivery of the entire product as promised. To say that will lead to buyers claiming nothing was in the package is ridiculous. By your line of thinking, the seller could easily ship an empty box, claim the product was in there, and say "I shipped it, and my responsibility ended the moment UPS took possession of the package". As Iowa999 said, insurance is for the seller.

I once shipped a collector's item neon sign to someone across the country (ebay). I had it packaged at the place UPS referred me to. When it arrived, the plastics and part of the neon were broken. The buyer sent me pictures and asked me what to do about it. My response? I immediately apologized and refunded his money. I asked him to help me with the insurance claim by taking some more pictures and allowing UPS to come out and complete their inspection. He obliged because of how I handled the refund. I fought UPS for 5 months to get that refund. Please tell me how my customer should have held that burden because he had the audacity to buy something from me and expect it would be delivered as described.

 

it's funny cause you guys are all saying the same thing except one person just doesn't understand that insurance is for the sender yet he stated:
... that's called taking responsibility of it. granted, you don't have to do much other than initiate the claim.

 

I have a spare set do you want them? I don't use them, you can just have them.

Shipper has to initiate claim usually, then FedEx or UPS issues payment to shipper, and it's the shipper's responsibility to pay it forward. I've shipped hundred+ pillars and other parts and have had a few claims, it's pretty straightforward. They probably wouldn't pay since it wasn't signed delivery anyways.

Regardless, if you want this set I have here, shoot me a PM and I'll mail them to you.

 

Every now and then, the humanity of humans makes it all worth it.

 

But more often than not, the humanity of humans drives me nuts....

"Quote" Entire Thread "/Quote"

 

WRONG. It is ultimately the SELLERS responsibility to have the item arrive to the buyer in the same condition in which it left your presence.
If there is any damage or missing items due to shipping, that is why the seller should get it insured, so he would be covered. End of story, its pretty black and white.