laxEVO

hi all,

my name is doug and i just purchased a new silver evo VIII a couple days ago.

i have extensive experience autocrossing a 200 hp civic hatch, doing lapping days, and also several years experience racing rwd shifter carts.

i do not however have any experience with an awd car.

since i am still in the break-in period and taking it pretty easy i don't have a real feel for how the car will handle at the limit.

is an awd car able to pull itself out of an oversteer situation with throttle application like a fwd - or will throttle application during oversteer simply amplify the oversteer (power slide)?

any thoughts on awd technique from REAL racers would be appreciated. please feel free to be as technical as necessary as far as racing terminology.

thanks,

-d

Cloud_IX

Well folks.. using search to find out more about driving AWD and this thread was viewed several times but never replied to.. Seems like a good question to me.

Sorry for digging up old threads but thats what happens when you "search"

Anyone??

chronohunter

iTrader: (1)

Doug as you might intuitively guess it is a combination of both fwd and rwd characteristics. You have the weight distribution of fwd with even better acceleration qualities of RWD (especially if hp is high or available traction is low). It will pull out of a slide like FWD but will use up more real estate in the process because it will slide more laterally due to the drive to the rear wheels. You should brake and drive it into the corner like a FWD car (lots of trail braking) then marvel in its ability to accelerate out and transition (things it can do better than FWD and RWD). As long as it has enough hp to make use of the AWD they are perhaps the most fun to drive of all because of the versatility of the platform, you want to be tidy and go for a quick lap? It'll do that, you want to drive like a hooligan!?! It'll do that too

EDIT: underlined above

DaWorstPlaya

iTrader: (31)

Short answer, yes ... but is a little more complicated as Chronohunter has said ... if you are too far into the slide you can pull out by hitting the throttle but if you are just starting, you can avoid it by lifting on the throttle a little ... its hard to explain you just start to intuitively feel this after driving the EVO for a while ...

d15b7

hi!

congrats on your new car purchase! great choice!!!!

i can add the following:

its the "easiest" car to drive quickly that i have ever driven on the track; i have a bit of experience (i instruct for most of the groups around here, and race with NASA, EMRA, VSCCA, etc). been doing track stuff for over 10 years....

currently, i track an H1 honda civic, a PS-1 Ford Probe (PT-E now), and a vintage Lotus Super Seven. some of my previous track cars have been a 96 Mustang Cobra, a 95 GTI VR6, and a 91 Miata. i've driven many different Porsches on track, a 383 supercharged Firehawk, a Peter Farrell RX-7, a vortech blown SHO, all the BMW M3 variants, a BMW 540i Sport, a Nascar motored Datsun Scarab, a 1000 cc Diasio, and a bunch more that i am forgetting right now....

the EVO, even in totally stock form, is so easy to drive around a track; it is simply a very very "friendly" track car; the balance is very good, the combination of AWD, really good suspension, great brakes, and good power make the car really fun and nice to drive.... you can surgically carve up the track, easily hitting all your brake, turn-in, apex, and track-out points; this car will make even a so-so driver look and feel better than he might really be!

for comparison, my H1 FWD car has stiff springs and a big rear bar (and no front bar) in an attempt to "neutralize" it a bit. the general effect is that if you lift even a bit on corner entry, the rear will step out quickly -- then the driver must be ready with steering and throttle input to catch it and point it in the direction he wishes to go. understeer is still a dominant characteristic in the slower, sharper turns if too much power is applied..... don't get me wrong, this car is fun to race, but not really "friendly" and definitely not "easy".

the other end of the spectrum of my other personal cars would have been my Mustang Cobra. i took that to the track a few times when i was instructing, just to kinda "exercise" it a bit... it was stock powertrain wise, with the only mods being SVO springs and Illumina shocks. it was my DD at that time. that car was a case of mega understeer entering corners (both fast and slow); then it would bite and if you wanted, you could provoke it into a lurid, oversteering powerslide by slamming the throttle to the wood; really really fun, "hooligan-ness" kinda driving. it was fun, and felt fast, but in reality, lap times were much slower. i really did enjoy driving it like that, but it was really hard on the tires, and basically burned out the stock rear diff lsd clutch plates in two weekends (no more lsd ).

i ended up trading in the Cobra for the 2003 EVO (currently my daily driver); after test driving the EVO, there wasn't even a second thought! thats how good the EVO is!!!!

enjoy yours; i am sure that you will be spending quite a few exciting weekends at the track with it!

todd

PS when mine hits 100k miles (its at 33k now) it will be getting a full cage and will become one of my primary racecars.... hehehehheh.....

Cloud_IX

Thanks guys for your feedback.. I know I pulled this one out and dusted it off but your feedback really helps.. I guess my main concern is about this car being tail happy and correcting.. I do not want what happened to a WRX on one of my track days to happen to me..

Richard EVO

I would agree with what the guys are saying about balance, and the fact that you can power out of a turn much earlier than in a rwd car. You can really hammer the gas with the wheel cocked as you start to unwind it. Do that in a rwd car and you will swap ends for sure. I've never driven a fwd car on a racetrack, so I can't help you there.

chronohunter

iTrader: (1)

make no mistake this kind of thing is not the cars fault! This is cause by a driver that has no car control skills driving on a racetrack. It is bound to happen, a kind of ticking time bomb waiting to go off. If you are going to drive on the track at any vehicles limit you should spend enough time on a skidpad that slides don't cause any sort of panic or distress.

The concept of track days that creep peoples speed up without skid training is a recipe for eventual disaster...

kevo

iTrader: (7)

I've seen way more ugly accident by pro drivers.....**** just happens.

Kayaalp

iTrader: (1)

Far from it. A Porsche 930 is tail happy. An E46 M3 with traction control switched off is tail happy. The dominant cornering attitude of a stock Evo is understeer. And the WRX is even worse.

So I wouldn't worry about the Evo being too "tail happy."

Emre

chronohunter

iTrader: (1)

B.S. ...you mean you think this is random and there is nothing you can do to prevent this from happening to you???

fromWRXtoEVO

iTrader: (18)

I can't speak for eveyone here but specifically my car looses the rear whenever driven hard or in rain. You should not get to that extreme in a daily basis unless your tires are near bold and/or you put serious power/torque.

I find easy to correct the car whenever I lose control from the back more over I want to reiterate that I only loose traction whenever mywheels are turned and I am full throtle.
The main difference on your FWD car is that when you loose traction the FWD always has a tendency to make turns wider because you are asking the front wheels to not only steer but also trasmit the power to the ground.

It is paramount to have a lowering stiff suspension on a FWD car in order to get maximum traction.

kevo

iTrader: (7)

What BS? all I'm saying is I've seen way more serious accident cause by pro drivers.

fromWRXtoEVO

iTrader: (18)

I think the Porsche has much better traction than the BMW M3, I am not saying this just because, I had a 911 Carrera(964) and my brother has a 02 M3 and have had a 97 and a 98 M3 with Dinan Supercharger. The BMW looses it easily.

The Porsche has more weight in the back and much wider track. The power curve of the Porsche is completly anti bruning tires, it is very lineal until it gets to 4000rpm were the sound and the torque gets up again. By the way, the 930 are hard to find, very rare and old as hell

my .2c

Kayaalp

iTrader: (1)

OK. But I'm not sure I see the relevance. We were not talking about whether the Porsche or M3 is more tail-happy. Just that the Evo is NOT tail-happy.

Incidentally, did you ever drive the 964 on the track? Ever lift in a corner? That car has one of the most playful rear-ends I've ever experienced. Much more so than a stock Evo.

Sure. But again, I don't really see the relevance.

Emre