xtnct

iTrader: (33)

Question to people that are safety inspectors for DE events:

I want to install a Schroth Rallye-3 harness (http://english.schroth.com/tuning/pr...d=37&id_kat1=2). The child seat teather anchor bolt appears to be a great location for this. The question I have, is that anchor strong enough? What are its specs compared to stock seat belt anchor locations.

Anyone know where I can actually get the anchor specifications at for:

Standard No. 225: Child Restraint Anchorage Systems (http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/...1to225.htm#225)
Scope and Purpose:
This standard establishes requirements for child restraint anchorage systems to ensure their proper location and strength for the effective securing of child restraints. The purpose of this standard is to reduce the likelihood of the anchorage systems’ failure, and to increase the likelihood that child restraints are properly secured and thus more fully achieve their potential effectiveness in motor vehicles.

and

Standard No. 210: Seat Belt Assembly Anchorages (http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/...1to225.htm#210)
Scope and Purpose:
This standard establishes requirements for seat belt assembly anchorages to ensure their proper location for effective occupant restraint and to reduce the likelihood of their failure during a vehicle impact.

Application:
Any component, other than the webbing or straps, involved in transferring seat belt loads to the vehicle structure in passenger cars, multipurpose passenger vehicles, trucks, and buses

so that I can compare the two?

Thanks.

992gnt

iTrader: (5)

Without getting into the whole "harnesses aren't safe without a rollbar" discussion, the child seat tether is not sufficient as-is for a harness mount. The anchor is designed for the weight of a small child and seat, not an adult. That said, I have heard of some guys bracing the underside of the package tray to spread the load. I am not the final word on this by any stretch, but I have looked into adding harnesses to my car quite thoroughly and using the tether un-supported would definately raise a red flag if I were tech-ing your car.

xtnct

iTrader: (33)

Your reply is appreciated.

Yes, I know the debate inside and out. Please take the time to review the link about to the Schroth belts noting that they are D.O.T approved for cars without rollbars, unlike regular racing harnesses. The schroth belts still allow the upper body to move forward and to the side like regular 3-pt belts.

I had my doubts of it being strong enough and hence my reason for asking. Even with a backing plate, would it be safe enough?

I finally found the specs, but my math/physics skills are lacking so could anyone translate things for me into the same units? Regular belts are in terms of LBS, and the tethers are in N (Newtons)

Standard 210 (belt anchors): http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...2001&TYPE=TEXT
Standard 225 (tether anchors): http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...2001&TYPE=TEXT

992gnt

iTrader: (5)

I'm very familiar with the Schroth belts, but have made the personal decision to put no less than a 5 point harness and a rollbar in my car. Until I'm prepared to do that, I'll continue using the stock safety bits. I'll have to pass on the conversion though, not my strong suit.

Ludikraut

iTrader: (17)

The tether point is not an approved mounting point for the harness, not by Schroth nor anyone else.

l8r)

WarmPepsi

iTrader: (35)

agreed.

not a good idea.

nothere

iTrader: (23)

have you considered using the upper rear harness mount? unfortunately it is a little offcenter.

Gabriel J

iTrader: (21)

Contact the guys at HMSmotorsport. They are THE expert on Schroth harnesses. Good guys too!

www.hmsmotorsport.com

tweekscratch

the rear harness mounts are the best place. I have mine there and it works fine. I made a loop of velcro to hold the belt when it wasn't in use.

pull the boards out of your trunk and look at the child safety seat mounting points. they are barely strong enough to hold a pizza must less at 180lbs person.

whitet777

iTrader: (6)

Schroth says right in the manual not to use child safety seat mounts.

TrakMnky

It's marty with the silver evo,

I just put schroth harnesses in my car and I'll second the suggestion to call HMS they were extremly helpful. I used my roll bar for the rear mounting positioin and the remainder of the stock mounting points for the rest.

If you remove the stock belts you will get a SRS light. Did you get the buckle that is DOT approved?

Congrats on your autocross successes so far looks like your doing well! I should be at the next event after ILL. Been waiting for a replacement coil over so cars been down for a month.

Later

whitet777

iTrader: (6)

The Rallye 4 bolts into the stock back seatbelt locations and the driver's seat locations all while leaving the stock belts in place. It neatly tucks out of the way for daily driving, but is also DOT approved if I so choose (I don't use it on the road by the way).

Thanks Marty for noticing my good year so far.

Tim

sir lurks alot

iTrader: (2)

In the PDF manual our car isn't listed as approved vehicle. The seat belt mounting points are too steep of an angle I believe. I sure wish there was a way to safely install harnesses.

CH4MAN

In the force jargon (F=MA), not to be confused with lbm (pound mass), 1 Newton = 0.22481 pound force. So, the regular seat belt and its achor spec is 13,344 Newtons. The child seat anchor point spec in only 5,400 Newtons, or roughly 1200 lbf.

I concur with 992 and others above, the child seat tether bolt was not designed for restraining an adult in a crash. A brief look comparing the anchor fasteners used for the seat belt vs the child seat as well as the thickness/reinforcement of the material where the threaded anchoring points are located should show an obvious difference.

Hope this helps,

Mark

xtnct

iTrader: (33)

Yes, the child seat anchor bolt is smaller than the rear shoulder belt anchor (but not by much).

I ended up mounting my belt to the rear shoulder belt anchors. It was a bit of a PITA to remove the rear trim, but its all done now.

Thanks to all for the great comments and suggestions. Nice to be involved in a thread with good and helpful information for once...