This weekend I got the chance to try a set of Hoosiers cup1 racing tires on my BMW and I just wanted to give my opinion on them.

I have been tracking my car for a year and I have been using performance street tires Kumho escada which go for $78 a tire . Let’s say they heat up quick and they become greasy after few laps and in return I had to slow down and in some cases pull in the pits for few minutes before going out again. The Kumhos in other words were horrible for my driving style and experience and I needed something that can last longer before it over heats and cooks it self. Aryan at the last event in VIR was training me so we go out in the Kumhos and they started to over heat after few laps by the end of the session he said enough with street tires you need to step up as there is no more in the car with these tires.

The Hoosiers were used I got them from my friend who races and they had been ran on the qualifying session so they still had plenty of meat on them but they were a bit old by the way these are 225 by 45 on 15” rims.

On my first session everyone warned me and reminded me that it will take at least 2 to 3 laps to warm these tires because they are endure CUP1 so I should take it slow. After my second lap I started to push the car and push it more and the more I push the more it sticks. In the same time I was getting frustrated because I can’t hear the tires which was a tool for me in street tires to see when they will give up. In return these tires barely squealed and when they did the car was almost side ways. They have ton of grip to the point that the chasse of the car was twisting and the back end feeling slugged and not as crisp any more. Also, with these tires you can not slide and rotate as easy in return it grips and they do let go but then in 1 turn you get various different small over steers and under steers which was never the case on street tires as I used just let them slide in one constant slide all across the turn pointing the noise in and modulating the throttle.

As I pulled in I told Tom how the car is feeling and that I was frustrated and he said this is normal but let’s make my sway bar tighter and will see what happens. Long story short we made it tighter and Aryan hops in the car and we go all out. After few laps the car feels better but then I get this weird feeling in the back where the car is gripping in one side and then letting go so I am thinking it’s my LSD which it was but that was not the only case as the car started to lift tires for longer periods. After few sessions I got the hang of it more and more and I started to appreciate these tires and sliding it.

The moral of this story is that these tires put great deal of stress on the Power train, chasse. They provide ton and ton of grip but are very slippery in the few first laps. The question is would I buy them again? The answer is no because it took some of the challenge out of my hands and they were too much for a driving events so next season I am switching to Toyo RA1.

 

Thanks for the good review! I had a chance to ride in my instructor's 'Nissan Sentra' race car with these tires on. The grip level was amazing.

 

Please preface your review with the following information. #1 YOUR car is NOT set up for race tires #2 You don't have experience driving on race tires. They don't take the challenge out of your hands, they UP the limit of what the car can do so you need to learn how to drive on them. Race tires require a different driving style than low grip street tires like the Kumho Ecsta series.

Dave Mac

 

No comment

 

Dave,
I disagree with part of your statement there. R-compounds do have a tendency to take some of the skill requirement out of going fast. In autox especially they can allow you to do multiple things (braking and steering) at once which would be impossible on a street tire. With that in mind, they can take some of the driving challenge out of the equation and hide any bad habits the driver may have.

John

 

I am an example of r-comps hiding bad habits, so I went back to street tires to improve my skills, since I went to r-comps almost right away when I started. The r-comps made me fast without a lot of skill. No doubt a more skilled person could have been even faster, but I definitely was benefitting from the ease of driving on r-comps.

 

In my post I clearly stated that this was a high speed driving event not a racing event. In case of racing I would go and buy Hoosiers However, for students and even advanced students/racing drivers in "events” the cost and outcome of these tires is in my book too much. Furthermore, many spec racing does not allow Hoosiers to be used and only certain R compounds like Toyos are allowed.

As mentioned earlier these tires hide the mistakes of the driver very well and make the driver lazy on the long run as they help a lot. Also, it’s harder to rotate a car with them and that was a fun part for me.

 

Very good post, Students and new drivers should always start with street tires and see how their progress is going before using R compounds.

 

one thing to remember is that because of all the extra grip they provide your car will roll a lot more. This will cause roll-understeer and roll-oversteer issues that will make the car feel horrible. The car needs to be quite stiff and relatively low with copious amounts of camber to take advantage of the extra grip and get the breakaway characteristics to be progressive.

Having said that Hoosiers are overkill for track days because of their short heat cycle life. You are much better off using RA-1s which while being about 6/10s slower per minute on a lap will last for a reasonable amount of time for a "R" compound tire (and give consistent grip throughout their life). They also like some camber as well so basically for any R tire you should have decent coilovers and a track specific alignment to make the car is able to properly use the tire and therefore insure good predictability at the limit

When well set-up the car is only a bit harder to driver, it is going faster so it reacts a bit quicker and if you make a mistake you are traveling at a higher speed so you must take all that into account. It should not be scary to drive as implied, that is due to incorrect set-up for the increased grip level.

To summarize I wouldn't hesitate putting a novice on a well set-up car on Ra-1s or non-R tires and I would save the Hoosiers for the Time Attacks where you need every last 10th

 

I also have experienced the nasty roll-understeer (and maybe oversteer) due to running very grippy tires on stock suspension, hah.

 

I was experiencing that in the turns. My car is completely setup to spec with - 3 camber in the front and all but I am missing the roll cage which I am working on.

 

This is exactly what I was thinking when I read Az3ar's original post. An E30 is VERY softly sprung, has very mild swaybars, and minimal negative camber in stock form. Most aftermarket suspensions for the E30 are only marginally better. It's only when you get into the more "hardcore" set-ups (such as the ones by Will Turner, Jeff Ireland, and Ground Control) that the E30 really comes into its own. Until then, R-comps don't really work very well...especially R-comps that are so camber and toe sensitive as Hoosiers.

Personally, I run Turner's "J-Stock" springs and dampers, Ireland's ridiculous swaybars, and K-Mac camber/caster plates up front. In addition, all the suspension bushings have been replaced with urethane. The car also has a custom designed and fitted 4-point rollbar welded in (which really stiffens up the rear of the chassis). With all of these changes, I find 225/50/R15 Toyo RA-1's are the perfect match.

Emre

 

Do you have an M20 engine in your car? If so, you need to be VERY careful when running R-comps. Lots of guys have been losing engines due to oil starvation in the corners. This happened to me in corner 8 (the carousel) at Le Circuit Mont-Tremblant last summer. The combination of race suspension, Toyo RA-1's, and a high-speed sweeper was enough to uncover the oil pickup and starve my crank bearings. Kaboom

You might want to consider a Canton Accusump or similar system if you plan to run R-comps. Personally, I think I'll probably stick with street tires for a while. Now that I've got a new M20B25 in the car, I'd like it to survive a little longer than 1 event

Emre

 

I have the Spec E30 setup which is Bilsteins shocks and HR race springs, all urethane bushings (engine and tranny mounts..etc). Big sway bars, -3 in the front and I believe -2 in the back I have roll bar that is mounted not welded by Kirck motorsports.

And few things here and there that I forgot about. Regardless the car is well setup but its not to its fullest.

 

hmmm very good point and I was thinking about that. While on Hoosiers the car felt that it’s under stress all the time and my LSD I believe was taking a big hit, in other words nothing was letting go and in the end something must let go.

I do have the M20 engine and I built the head this summer so I would be a bit disappointed if things break. I do use redline or mobile 15W50 and I add extra half a qrt all the time.

I really don’t want to go back to cheap street tires as I had enough with over heating them and having to slow down and pull over almost every session. If anything I am going with Toyo RA1.