HANS device and airbag
Feb 4, 2007, 10:00 AM
#16
That's odd, I spoke with Joe also and he told me the narrower belts were for comfort along with the seat. Are you sure about this? It even says otherwise on the HANS site:
I can't find the blurb about the seat, but it was my understanding that the HANS specific seats had the shoulder straps further apart so that the belts wouldn't rub against your neck... to be honest, I heard most of these things were rumors about the HANS.
Warmpepsi: From my understanding, the only belts you can't use with a HANS are ASM-type belts (the ones that expand upon impact and are 4 point). If it matters, I run the HANS with Schroth Profi II belts and a Bride Zeta III seat, I have been in a crash and the HANS did its job. I think as long as you have some decent 5 or 6 point belts and a bucket seat (which is required for the belts anyway) you will be good to go.
I also agree, the Schroth 4 point ASM belts are perfectly ok and work against submarining. I would imagine at a higher speed impact the 6 point belt might be more effective, but the 4 point ASM has always worked as described, from what I hear. The problem is combined with the HANS, it can expand and the HANS device can slip, and well, you can figure out the rest. It even says on the ASM belt that it is "NOT HANS COMPATIBLE!" But from what I understand they are fine without one.
I can't find the blurb about the seat, but it was my understanding that the HANS specific seats had the shoulder straps further apart so that the belts wouldn't rub against your neck... to be honest, I heard most of these things were rumors about the HANS.
Warmpepsi: From my understanding, the only belts you can't use with a HANS are ASM-type belts (the ones that expand upon impact and are 4 point). If it matters, I run the HANS with Schroth Profi II belts and a Bride Zeta III seat, I have been in a crash and the HANS did its job. I think as long as you have some decent 5 or 6 point belts and a bucket seat (which is required for the belts anyway) you will be good to go.
I also agree, the Schroth 4 point ASM belts are perfectly ok and work against submarining. I would imagine at a higher speed impact the 6 point belt might be more effective, but the 4 point ASM has always worked as described, from what I hear. The problem is combined with the HANS, it can expand and the HANS device can slip, and well, you can figure out the rest. It even says on the ASM belt that it is "NOT HANS COMPATIBLE!" But from what I understand they are fine without one.
the part about the ASM belts were kinda what i thought.
I appreciate your input.
Feb 4, 2007, 10:08 AM
#18
Now back onto the airbag topic. Consensus at all?
With a full-closed face helmet, visor down, airbag still plugged in? I'd love to swap steering wheels anyways, but I can't see a justification unless the airbag has to be 100% gone.
(putting in the scca-tranny cooler to try and save my 6 spd
)
Feb 4, 2007, 10:18 AM
#19
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again, thanks for the confirmation
Now back onto the airbag topic. Consensus at all?
With a full-closed face helmet, visor down, airbag still plugged in? I'd love to swap steering wheels anyways, but I can't see a justification unless the airbag has to be 100% gone.
(putting in the scca-tranny cooler to try and save my 6 spd )
Now back onto the airbag topic. Consensus at all?
With a full-closed face helmet, visor down, airbag still plugged in? I'd love to swap steering wheels anyways, but I can't see a justification unless the airbag has to be 100% gone.
(putting in the scca-tranny cooler to try and save my 6 spd
)
Feb 4, 2007, 10:25 AM
#20
No point in using an airbag with a 5 point, HANS, and a cage/rollbar. You'll be pretty stationary at that point and I would be surprised if the airbag even reached you. However, I think you could be putting yourself in more danger since the airbag could potentially shatter the face mask if you sit close to the wheel (like me).
The car isn't really streetable, but other than no cat, it's street legal. So i'll leave the bags til i stumble upon a winning lotto ticket
I'm basically running HPDE/TT style stuff, but normally i'm out there playing with the bigger boys
A good rule of thumb, is normally anything that passes me, has a full cage. And honestly, so should I.
Feb 4, 2007, 12:13 PM
#21
Apples and oranges. You don't submarine with stock 3-point belts because they act like a pulley: as your upper body moves forward, your hips get pulled down.
The fact that they're specifically disallowed in road racing and rally use by the FIA and SFI is a pretty good sign 
Emre
Emre
Feb 4, 2007, 12:38 PM
#22
Apples and oranges. You don't submarine with stock 3-point belts because they act like a pulley: as your upper body moves forward, your hips get pulled down.
The fact that they're specifically disallowed in road racing and rally use by the FIA and SFI is a pretty good sign
Emre
The fact that they're specifically disallowed in road racing and rally use by the FIA and SFI is a pretty good sign
Emre
Feb 4, 2007, 01:29 PM
#25
However, HANS devices are meant to be used with fixed-back race seats and harnesses. You can't use stock reclining seats (heck, you can't even use most "race" seats!). That means you need a cage of some sort. If you're going to get fixed-back race seats and a cage anyway...why not go with proper 5+ point harnesses in the first place?
Originally Posted by nils
i want a HANS... wish i didnt have to dish out $1k to get one...
Emre
Feb 4, 2007, 01:50 PM
#27
Well, you definitely can't use a HANS with 2" 4-point tuner belts. Whether you can use them with 3" 4-point harnesses isn't something I can't answer...I never specifically asked about that.
However, HANS devices are meant to be used with fixed-back race seats and harnesses. You can't use stock reclining seats (heck, you can't even use most "race" seats!). That means you need a cage of some sort. If you're going to get fixed-back race seats and a cage anyway...why not go with proper 5+ point harnesses in the first place?
Funny thing is, there are some head-and-neck devices on the market that appear to be even better than the HANS in terms of design and use. I have some experience with the Isaac Device, and I found it better than the HANS in almost every respect. And it's FAR cheaper. Unfortunately for us, it's not yet approved by most race sanctioning bodies. So, we'll have to wait...
Emre
However, HANS devices are meant to be used with fixed-back race seats and harnesses. You can't use stock reclining seats (heck, you can't even use most "race" seats!). That means you need a cage of some sort. If you're going to get fixed-back race seats and a cage anyway...why not go with proper 5+ point harnesses in the first place?
Funny thing is, there are some head-and-neck devices on the market that appear to be even better than the HANS in terms of design and use. I have some experience with the Isaac Device, and I found it better than the HANS in almost every respect. And it's FAR cheaper. Unfortunately for us, it's not yet approved by most race sanctioning bodies. So, we'll have to wait...
Emre
Feb 4, 2007, 02:10 PM
#28
Not sure where you can get a list of approved seats, though. Joe Marko is probably the best resource for that kind of info.
Emre
Feb 4, 2007, 02:12 PM
#30
I don't know the details. It has to do with the shape (and width, I think) of the headrest portion. To be honest, I bet the HANS would work with just about any race seat. But not all seats are HANS approved. Again, this will run you into trouble with your race sanctioning body.
Not sure where you can get a list of approved seats, though. Joe Marko is probably the best resource for that kind of info.
Emre
Not sure where you can get a list of approved seats, though. Joe Marko is probably the best resource for that kind of info.
Emre
If theres a reason you or anyone else, thinks it's unsafe, i'm all ears, but i think the positives outweigh the negatives.