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Building a reliable DD track car

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Old May 24, 2007 | 02:49 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by nj1266
Here is what I would do if I ever track my DD Evo:

1. Toyo RA1 tires
2. Bigger radiator. I have had a good experience with Koyo and run them on my race car.
3. Bigger intercooler. I have no idea what brand is best but the Nesei has grabbed my attention.
4. Motul RBF 600 brake fluid with race pads (HT14 Hawk) and SS brake lines.
5. Set the boost to about 21 psi @ peak.
6. A good solid 11:1 AFR with lower than stock timing. For a 9, I would shoot @ 14* @ 7000 rpm and 3-4* at peak boost.
7. A slightly thicker adjustable rear sway bar.
8. Change your fluids. I will use Redline heavy in the TC, Redline 75w-90 Gear oil in the rear and some combo of MT-90 and MTL in the tranny.
9. Change the hose clamps to T-clamps. This is really a good idea. It makes your track experience more pleasureable.
i'd recommend stock fluids in the tranny.

Everyone else switched and dropped 4th gear in the 6 spd.

I ran stock, and didn't have a hint of an issue.
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Old May 24, 2007 | 09:57 PM
  #32  
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Some great advice in this thread from experience and multiple points of view

Tracking and Autox'ing on a budget is a tricky proposition, but a reality for most. As mentioned several times there is risk and you have to not only recognize it but have at least some kind of contingency plan in the event that the worst happens. I doubt when you go to an HPDE and look around the paddock that everyone pitting with you has a box of cashed stashed away for the 'just in case' but its definately wise to quantify your risk and know where you'd end up if you wrote off your car, a major component of it, or possibly even caused an incident involving another car.

With maybe a dozen or so HPDE's under my belt I'm more comfortable reading this thread and picking up some wisdom than dispensing my 'advice'. But I will offer an observation that has kind of been touched on previously in the thread. Meeting and trying to learn from as many track veterans as will indulge me I've noticed that those that have any kind of budget to their hobby seem to do one of two things. A - They track a relatively new car, mods are minimal - usually pads and a set of dedicated track wheels/tires, perhaps a sway bar etc. - and turn their car often - trading/selling after a season or two and starting over. or B - They have a dedicated daily driver and a track-prepped 'fun car' that (while they certainly don't want to) they are comfortable putting in harms way on the track or in time trials.

Also previously covered - you're starting out with a phenomenal platform, and while the mods you've listed here are mostly geared toward reliability, Mitsubishi has done alot of homework making a suitably durable and capable car that you can still drive to the office on Monday - it may not test the limits of the most veteran or talented folks here - but its plenty of car to be thoroughly enjoyable for many many track days to come.

I track my car on a budget (as I imagine most do at varying levels) and I've found that rather than going mod-crazy (as with a few past cars) its been a better decision to me to sock some cash away in the event of damage or a mechanical failure, and also for the next down payment as this car accumulates wear and tear.

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Old May 26, 2007 | 08:38 PM
  #33  
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I've been driving and instructing for more or less 10 years now. One thing I can say with certainty is that you absolutely, positively do NOT need "more power" on the track. The stock drivetrain is just fine. The engine failures you see on the track are generally due to power mods, running lean, or losing oil pressure. The first two problems can be avoided by keeping your drivetrain and engine management stock. The last problem can be avoided by staying away from over-the-top suspension setups and 2-foot-wide racing slicks.

Originally Posted by boostinpsi
what i plan on is:
Koyo Radiator
probably a ralliart thermostat <--necessary or no?
APR radiator shroud
Oil cooler <---good company at a decent price?
...
custom IC spray <--who's bright idea was it to take it away for the 05s anyways
You don't need any of that stuff. Just turn your boost down a few PSI. As for the guys who say run "just" 21 PSI, please ignore them. You're not trying to win LeMans here. You're just having fun on the track. Turn the boost down to 17 PSI, run a quality synthetic lube, and you'll never need to worry about the engine.

Emre
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Old May 26, 2007 | 09:46 PM
  #34  
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I ran the Evo at the track for five events last year, going from May to September. Power was up approximately 20-30hp from stock (just re-tuned with stock everything). During August I saw 120C oil temps. When I saw those temps, I ran easy for a lap and went back into it for the rest of the session. Ambient temp was between 90 and 100F.

The early part of this May saw me out at the track with a full exhaust and the tune to go with it. Temp was mid 80s, boost was up another psi or two, somewhere around 21psi, and whp was up a total of 30-50hp from stock. Oil temps went right up to 120C, where I chose to see if they were stable, and eventually saw as high as 125C. My coolant is suspect since the dealer mucked around with a recall on a coolant hose, but I will NOT take those power levels out there in any warmer temps.

The car may survive at those temps and that power... but what if it doesn't? I'll be doing just as Nils did and addressing all cooling related items for the sake of reliability. I have the internals to just build another motor, but that doesn't mean I'm going to see how long this motor can last in sub-par conditions. Power is back down to the first tune, with lower boost, and I'll be trying that power at the track again soon. The extra power I had may have made me faster, but given that I'm on narrow'ish street tires it is hard to tell. Either way, as my power has changed, it hasn't added or taken away any enjoyment I had there.

I change the oil before every track day and overfil it just a bit. Brake fluid is ATE Super Blue and it gets bled/replaced every two track days. Transmission/diff/transfer case fluid is OEM and replaced every two or three track days. Coolant has been whatever came with the car, which I admit to neglecting. I always mix in 1.5-2.5 gallons of 100 octane into my 91 octane fuel, just to prevent octane related problems.

Cooling will be 50/50 with some Water Wetter, just to see how that works. From there I'll be looking at higher pressure radiator caps, radiator shrouds, a radiator, oil cooler, whatever it takes to ensure that my temps are stable. Power won't go up much, since I still feel that the car is more than I can handle.

-Jon
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Old May 27, 2007 | 01:50 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Kayaalp
I've been driving and instructing for more or less 10 years now. One thing I can say with certainty is that you absolutely, positively do NOT need "more power" on the track. The stock drivetrain is just fine. The engine failures you see on the track are generally due to power mods, running lean, or losing oil pressure. The first two problems can be avoided by keeping your drivetrain and engine management stock. The last problem can be avoided by staying away from over-the-top suspension setups and 2-foot-wide racing slicks.

You don't need any of that stuff. Just turn your boost down a few PSI. As for the guys who say run "just" 21 PSI, please ignore them. You're not trying to win LeMans here. You're just having fun on the track. Turn the boost down to 17 PSI, run a quality synthetic lube, and you'll never need to worry about the engine.

Emre
Yeah...but you're assuming that folks want to actually go to driving schools to improve their driving. Don't you know that track schools really are all about going as fast as possible, as soon as possible, and posting "kill stories" and video of passing others cars on internet message boards?
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Old May 27, 2007 | 06:39 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by EVO8LTW
Yeah...but you're assuming that folks want to actually go to driving schools to improve their driving. Don't you know that track schools really are all about going as fast as possible, as soon as possible, and posting "kill stories" and video of passing others cars on internet message boards?
lol. Yeah, if that's the goal, then just ignore me

Seriously, I started my tracking "career" with a stock E30 318is with a whopping 135hp (on a good day) and 195/55/14" all-season tires. That car taught me to brake late (or not at all), enter the corners as hot as possible (but not too hot), conserve momentum, and never scrub any speed. After a while, I was one of the "fast" guys even though my car was one of the slowest on the track. That's the way to learn.

Emre
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Old May 27, 2007 | 06:51 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by stimpy
Coolant has been whatever came with the car, which I admit to neglecting.
You'll be surprised at what a difference this makes. If you're running 100% antifreeze (which is what most dealers will fill your system with), your cooling efficiency will be **** poor. Plain water is the best coolant. What's the likelihood that your coolant will freeze during the summer driving season? You only need enough antifreeze to provide some lubrication and corrosion protection.

Originally Posted by stimpy
Cooling will be 50/50 with some Water Wetter, just to see how that works.
Even 50:50 is too much antifreeze for a track car. Try a mix of 75+% deionized H2O. Racers will run 100% deionized H2O with just a bottle of lubricant (like Water Wetter). That way you not only get maximum cooling efficiency, but also avoid contaminating the track with slippery antifreeze if something happens.

Emre
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Old May 29, 2007 | 09:19 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Kayaalp
You'll be surprised at what a difference this makes. If you're running 100% antifreeze (which is what most dealers will fill your system with), your cooling efficiency will be **** poor. Plain water is the best coolant. What's the likelihood that your coolant will freeze during the summer driving season? You only need enough antifreeze to provide some lubrication and corrosion protection.
As my track car is still a somewhat daily-driver, I'm running 100% antifreeze.

I'm wondering what this summer, and the warm midwest summer temps and humidity is going to do with my car...
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Old May 29, 2007 | 09:41 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by boomn29
As my track car is still a somewhat daily-driver, I'm running 100% antifreeze.
You mean you're running 100% glycol, or you're running what comes out of the "ready to serve" bottle? And (to Emre) I'd be really surprised if any dealer used 100% glycol as it's a lot more expensive than water (maybe it's a Canadian thing?). I stick with the standard 50% and haven't had any overheating issues on the track (basically stock power level, 20min sessions).

Dave
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Old May 29, 2007 | 09:51 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by EVO8LTW
Yeah...but you're assuming that folks want to actually go to driving schools to improve their driving. Don't you know that track schools really are all about going as fast as possible, as soon as possible, and posting "kill stories" and video of passing others cars on internet message boards?
So true it hurts ...
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Old May 29, 2007 | 03:43 PM
  #41  
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To help keep your car alive during and after track sessions:

- Drive smoothly. Don't try to speed-shift, don't try to man-handle the car...

- Fill up with at least 50% unleaded racegas. I go 50/50 VP109/93 or 74/25 100/93

- Run your pump-gas tune

- The more cooling, the better. Good comments on this already. H20 and water-wetter. Brake cooling ducts. Upgraded oil cooler, radiator, IC all will help.

- Change your fluids before and after each event. This means: oil, transmission, transfer case, rear diff. Not sure how often to flush the radiator fluid. I do that once per year.

- Get better brake pads, better brake fluid for track use. SS lines for clutch and brakes.

- Inspect everything as much as possible before/during/and after the event. Things have a habit of coming loose when tracking the car.

l8r)
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Old May 29, 2007 | 03:48 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by djh
(to Emre) I'd be really surprised if any dealer used 100% glycol as it's a lot more expensive than water (maybe it's a Canadian thing?).

Dave
Actually I only have 5k miles on mine and I was doing stuff to the car and had to remove the radiator. When I drained it sure enough it was 100% glycol no water at all.
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Old May 29, 2007 | 04:09 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Kayaalp
I've been driving and instructing for more or less 10 years now. One thing I can say with certainty is that you absolutely, positively do NOT need "more power" on the track. The stock drivetrain is just fine. The engine failures you see on the track are generally due to power mods, running lean, or losing oil pressure. The first two problems can be avoided by keeping your drivetrain and engine management stock. The last problem can be avoided by staying away from over-the-top suspension setups and 2-foot-wide racing slicks.

You don't need any of that stuff. Just turn your boost down a few PSI. As for the guys who say run "just" 21 PSI, please ignore them. You're not trying to win LeMans here. You're just having fun on the track. Turn the boost down to 17 PSI, run a quality synthetic lube, and you'll never need to worry about the engine.

Emre
I tracked my Evo, semi-hard, for about 3 years. I did things to improve boost response, and flatten the power curve. I also decreased boost to ensure engine longevity. I also added a wide-band 02 and an SAFC2, and I learned how to use them. I kept my air/fuel @11:0/1, but did creep it up to 11:5/1 on race gas. I was very conservative when it came to the motor, because I knew I couldn't replace it. When I finally sold the car, the motor was unhurt (compression check confirmed), so the things noted above here, do work. The only part of my car that showed 'abuse' was the tranny, which I neglected, I admit. Shifting was become difficult, and 2nd and fourth were fast disappearing. BUt, i was averaging @20+ events per year, not counting the days I rented tracks during the week . Yes me=track *****.
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Old May 29, 2007 | 04:43 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by kreionic
Actually I only have 5k miles on mine and I was doing stuff to the car and had to remove the radiator. When I drained it sure enough it was 100% glycol no water at all.
How did you determine that, with a hydrometer? I'm really skeptical because most anti-freeze formulations depend on water for the pH buffering.

Dave
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Old May 30, 2007 | 04:03 PM
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so, my car is bone stock (hawk brake pads, but that's it). I can't reduce boost or do any of that other stuff.

I plan on using water wetter instead of coolant (it's starting to get hot), and I already use that NOS racing formula octane booster with MMT to stave off knocking or preignition.

I do change engine oil all the time, but not the tranny, diff and TC that much. I am on street tires and pretty slow, so I am hoping that the car will take the "track treatment" for a while.

I'm curious about the "man-handling" comment above. do you mean man-handling the shifter knob? or tossing the car around aggressively with throttle/brakes?steering wheel?

Being a beginner, I was hoping (deluding myself maybe) that if left stock powerwise and the only other mods were maybe a set of coilovers, that the car would be track durable... How wrong am I?
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