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Auto-X at Aloha Stadium

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Old Jul 3, 2007, 08:25 AM
  #16  
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You would/will do WAY better in PAX from BSP.
Old Jul 3, 2007, 09:07 AM
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(Auto-x newb question) How is that? Not sure how it works.

I still won't even place in BSP... the 240 is ran by like an entire family (about 5 times). I'd be in dead last or second to last place in that class. At least in EM I have a shot at taking first (once I get R comps).
Old Jul 3, 2007, 09:34 AM
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The way PAX works is each class has an index, and your time is multiplied by this index to get your PAX time. EM has a much, MUCH higher index than BSP, which means that if you run in EM, your PAX will be way worse than if you ran in BSP. You are more worried about where you place in your class than where you place overall in PAX it seems. You should run in the class where you belong, not a crazy high class where everyone is in the wrong place. Why don't all those cars run where they belong like SM, STU, or BSP?

Index per class:
- STU = .821
- BSP = .853
- SM = -.856
- EM = .879

So, let's say you and I are both in the same event, but I run SM and you run EM. Let's say it's a 50-second course, give or take. If I run a 50.000, then my PAX would be 42.800. For you to beat me in PAX while running in EM, that means you'd have to run a 48.7 or better. So, even though my car is more highly modified than yours, you have to beat my raw time by over 1.3 seconds just to beat me in PAX. The gap is even larger for BSP and a LOT larger vs STU...

You're sure you couldn't beat any of the people in that 240 in BSP? Evos dominated BSP nationally last year, so if you get the right setup, you can probably beat them...

Last edited by Warrtalon; Jul 3, 2007 at 09:38 AM.
Old Jul 3, 2007, 09:56 AM
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Looking at your regions results for that day, looks like you would have been around 48th rather than 63rd in PAX if you would have been in BSP. Although if all your other EM buddies that are in the wrong class would be in their correct classes it might bump you back to like 53rd or something.

Looks like there might be quite a few mis classed cars judging by the results page BMW M3's in BSP and CSP? Chevy Camaro in AS? I would even take a closer look at that 240Z if I was losing in BSP.

The way to handle mis classed cars locally is to just talk to the owner about the illegal mods. Sometimes they dont even know. Protesting just causes unneccesary drama.
Old Jul 3, 2007, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by brian94ht
Protesting just causes unneccesary drama.
Which is what I want to avoid. I don't want to be the ******** that made half the cars get re-classed.

Thanks for the explanation Warr. As far as that Z, I'd need to do more suspension work and get R comps to keep up. I was over 3 seconds behind him.
Old Jul 3, 2007, 02:09 PM
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from the rule book please explain this more to me

Originally Posted by 2007solorules.pdf
13. STOCK CATEGORY

13.10 ENGINE AND DRIVE TRAIN

A. The engine air filter element may be removed or replaced. A
replacement element which is taller than standard may not be
used to hold the air cleaner cover open. No other components of
the air induction system may be removed, replaced or modified.


14. STREET TOURING CATEGORY

E. The engine management system parameters and operation may
be modified only via the methods listed below. Any and all modifications
must meet or exceed the applicable US DOT emissions
standards for the year, make, and model of the car. These allowances
also apply to forced induction cars, except that no changes
to standard boost levels, intercoolers, or boost controls are permitted.

Boost changes indirectly resulting from allowed modifications
are permissible, but directly altering or modifying the boost
or turbo controls, either mechanically or electronically, is strictly
prohibited.


15. STREET PREPARED CATEGORY

Cars running in Street Prepared Category must have been series
produced with normal road touring equipment, capable of being
licensed for normal road use in the United States, and normally sold
and delivered through the manufacturer’s retail sales outlets in the
United States. Cars not specifically listed in Stock or Street
Prepared Category classes in Appendix A must have been produced
in quantities of at least 1000 in a 12 month period to be eligible for
Street Prepared Category.

A vehicle may compete in Street Prepared Category if the
preparation of the vehicle has not exceeded the allowable
modifications of Stock Category
, except as specified below.
However, the distinction between different years/models used in
Stock Category does not apply in Street Prepared Category.
Example: Porsche 911 models that are listed on the same line are
considered the same.

15.1 AUTHORIZED MODIFICATIONS

A. All Allowable modifications permitted in Stock Category are
allowed.

B. Street Prepared vehicles may only be modified in excess of Stock
Category rules in the following ways. Any modification not
specifically authorized by the Stock Category or Street Prepared
rules is prohibited.
No unauthorized modifications are permitted
in order to accommodate authorized modifications (e.g., nonstock
hood scoops or holes necessary for carburetor clearance).
Structural modifications, such as the addition of members known
as “jacking rails”, are not permitted unless specifically authorized
herein.

15.10 ENGINE AND DRIVE TRAIN

C. Induction allowances are as follows:

4. Turbochargers and/or superchargers (“forced induction”) may
not be added, changed, or modified. On vehicles originally
equipped with forced induction:


a) No hardware changes or alterations to turbocharger(s) or
supercharger(s), in size or number, are permitted.
Turbochargers
or superchargers may be updated/backdated only
in conjunction with the accompanying complete engine
unit.

d) No changes are permitted to blow-off/pop-off valves.

f) Boost regulation systems, either electronic or mechanical,
and electronic fuel cuts referencing boost pressure may be
altered or modified except as prohibited herein. Boost
pressure changes resulting from authorized changes are
permitted.
this is all from the rule book here is the link http://scca.org/_FileLibrary/File/2007SoloRules.pdf by reading this it states that you cannot run a boost controller b/c it changes the air induction.

if i am wrong please explain to me in detail why i am wrong so i can better understand this

Last edited by shaggadelic; Jul 3, 2007 at 02:14 PM.
Old Jul 3, 2007, 02:14 PM
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It says in F at the bottom that boost can be altered either electronically or mechanically. "Except as prohibited herein" would mean anything after F.
Old Jul 3, 2007, 02:24 PM
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"A vehicle may compete in Street Prepared Category if the
preparation of the vehicle has not exceeded the allowable
modifications of Stock Category, except as specified below"

You bolded the wrong part ****... the change in the rules includes boost control.
Old Jul 3, 2007, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by shaggadelic
from the rule book please explain this more to me
this is all from the rule book here is the link http://scca.org/_FileLibrary/File/2007SoloRules.pdf by reading this it states that you cannot run a boost controller b/c it changes the air induction.

if i am wrong please explain to me in detail why i am wrong so i can better understand this
What needs explanation? Are you asking why BSP class thinks they can run higher boost? You highlighted most of the important reasons why.

f) Boost regulation systems, either electronic or mechanical,
and electronic fuel cuts referencing boost pressure may be
altered or modified
except as prohibited herein. Boost
pressure changes resulting from authorized changes are
permitted.

You are not making any "hardware changes or alterations to turbocharger(s) or
supercharger(s),
in size or number," right?

Turbochargers and/or superchargers (“forced induction”) may
not be added, changed, or modified. On vehicles originally
equipped with forced induction:

A boost controller is not a Turbocharger, a supercharger or part of the induction system.
Old Jul 3, 2007, 02:43 PM
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Sweet Pics and video. I was wondering what side/lot at Aloha they ran events at. Every time I've been to the stadium it's always up by the stadium itself and not down the hill.

Regarding your classing, I have just one simple question. Why do you even run a boost controller? I mean does it really do anything for you? If that is all that's keeping your car out of STU, I think I would pull it off and run stock boost until you upgrade to R compounds. Heck, you might realize you like STU better anyway (I did ) since on the island you probably could just run your "race" tires all the time on the street. You would be surprised too at the power you can make legally in the class with the right combination of mods. Just a thought.
Old Jul 3, 2007, 02:50 PM
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I run a boost controller because I like more power than stock boost... plus, I'm tuned for it, and don't feel like going back and forth between stock BCS and my Hallman. I suppose I could cheat the system and use ECUFlash to control boost, but that's f'd up.

I've had the MBC on before me auto-xing was even a thought. I was big into the 1/4 when I was still in the mainland, but after coming out to Hawaii and realizing there's no track I had to take what I could get (the only legal racing out here is auto-x and drifting). Just so happens that I like it now. Once (if) we get a track back I'll be doing both.

Thanks for the insight though bro.
Old Jul 3, 2007, 03:55 PM
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herein doesn't mean after; http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/herein

here·in
–adverb
1. in or into this place.
2. in this fact, circumstance, etc.; in view of this.

here·in
adv.
In or into this.

herein

adverb
in this place or thing or document;
"I shall discuss the question herein"
Old Jul 3, 2007, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by bboypuertoroc
"A vehicle may compete in Street Prepared Category if the
preparation of the vehicle has not exceeded the allowable
modifications of Stock Category, except as specified below"

You bolded the wrong part ****... the change in the rules includes boost control.
this is what the "except as specified below" i never posted the whole part. but here it is and it has nothing to do with a boost controller

this is the missing part i never posted since it had nothing to do with boost controller
Originally Posted by 2007solorule.pdf
15. STREET PREPARED CATEGORY

Cars running in Street Prepared Category must have been series
produced with normal road touring equipment, capable of being
licensed for normal road use in the United States, and normally sold
and delivered through the manufacturer’s retail sales outlets in the
United States. Cars not specifically listed in Stock or Street
Prepared Category classes in Appendix A must have been produced
in quantities of at least 1000 in a 12 month period to be eligible for
Street Prepared Category.

A vehicle may compete in Street Prepared Category if the
preparation of the vehicle has not exceeded the allowable
modifications of Stock Category,
except as specified below.
However, the distinction between different years/models used in
Stock Category does not apply in Street Prepared Category.
Example: Porsche 911 models that are listed on the same line are
considered the same.

Cars listed as eligible in and prepared to the current national
Improved Touring rules are permitted to compete in their respective
Street Prepared classes. Neither Street Prepared nor Improved
Touring cars are permitted to interchange preparation rules. Improved
Touring cars may use tires which are eligible under current IT rules
even if they are not eligible in Street Prepared.

Cars listed as eligible in and prepared to the current American Sedan
road race rules are permitted to compete in Class B Street Prepared.
Neither Street Prepared nor American Sedan cars are permitted to
interchange preparation rules. American Sedan cars may use tires
which are eligible under current AS rules even if they are not eligible
in Street Prepared.

Cars listed as eligible in and prepared to the current national Touring
category rules are permitted to compete in their respective Street
Prepared classes. Neither Street Prepared nor Touring cars are
permitted to interchange preparation rules. Touring cars may use
tires which are eligible under current Touring rules even if they are
not eligible in Street Prepared.
Old Jul 3, 2007, 04:05 PM
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so what i am saying is that there is only one line that says you can run a boost controller but everything above it says you cannot. and the rules for SP is that you need to follow the rules of the stock class which the boost controller does not follow. and in street touring it clearly says that you cannot run a boost controller. and by running a boost controller your are modifing your stock AFI

Last edited by shaggadelic; Jul 3, 2007 at 04:11 PM.
Old Jul 3, 2007, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by shaggadelic
so what i am saying is that there is only one line that says you can run a boost controller but everything above it says you cannot. and the rules for SP is that you need to follow the rules of the stock class which the boost controller does not follow. and in street touring it clearly says that you cannot run a boost controller. and by running a boost controller your are modifing your stock AFI
A vehicle may compete in Street Prepared Category if the
preparation of the vehicle has not exceeded the allowable
modifications of Stock Category, except as specified below.
It seems this is the part you are missing, "except as specified below."
Why would they even have a SP class if it was the same as stock? Iam not following you.
SP includes the mods from stock that you can do not the ones you cant.

You are right, you cannot run higher boost in st classes.


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