i agree with upgrading tires - bakes - suspension, LSD, and the Center Diff way before power mods. i really would get the 60/40 center diff from GSC for a track car. just watch nil's videos - it looks like it cures under steer.

 

I like all these thoughts.

However, if I were building up from scratch; I wouldn't. Personally I'd purchase something already setup with all the gremlins worked out. It would be light, reliable, relatively powerful and I'd trailor it exclusively and not even license it for the streets. That's me...

Whether that's an Evo - something cheaper or more expensive - depends a lot on your pocket depth and experience level. Also depends on your area, goals, group(s) to run with... and pocket depth!

 

yeah, but it's honestly hard to consider going slower than you were before, regardless of what you were previously running.

Moreso if you're running a stock-powered evo, where everybody (except the miatas) walks you down the straights.

 

What huh? The Evo is far from a dog. I have rather simple Buschur bolt ons. Intake, exhaust, upper pipe, fuel pump and a chip and I run 12.3 1/4s and keep up with GT3s and 911 turbos. In short while in this car I have NEVER been "walked". Well, there was that one 911 turbo who pulled me a bit but I wouldn't say walked. I caught him in the braking zone however so it's all good!

Power is one of the easiest things to make with our cars. They are responsive as he!! to sensible mods.

 

If youre responding to the post that is immediately preceding yours, i would say that i think you completely misunderstood/misread it. He said, "if you're running a stock-powered evo, where everybody (except the miatas) walks you down the straights." Whereas youre referring to an Evo with basic bolt-ons coupled with a flash/chip. None of which has anything to do with his post. Either way, i dont see how you have never been walked. Vettes, among most other cars of that stature, pull away from me on straights all the time.

 

Yeah, i think i've posted up vids a few times, i mean, stock, at stock boost levels, it's slow in the straights, sure you catch up in the corners, and are riding their rear, but in a straight line, at 100+ the evo is slow.

 

well, thx for that comment

i agree, ha ha...

n

 

Well gee... Yeah. A stock Evo is slower than one with a few bolt ons but my mods are not all that earth shattering. As such I think it speaks to the ability of the car to go tow to toe with damn near anything without the need for major work or pulling the head, let alone the motor.

Now I admit that I have not been toe to toe with a new ZO6 but I was bumper to bumper with GT3s and 911 turbos last weekend. They did not walk me. If you got walked, sorry. Either fix your car or up your exit speed.

 

again, something we're not talking about here, is track selection.

Sure it's easier to run close at mid-o (other than the long straight), or shorter technical courses.

But more open tracks, where HP and high top speed comes into effect, you WILL get pulled away from. To say that you're running with 500hp+ cars and not getting left in the dust, is kind of a joke.

Not all of us would like to run a stupid amount of boost, or need a race gas tune. The thing thats amazing to me is running similar (or quicker) laptimes than people with 200+ more hp, and hoosiers.

And before you say that my crap is slow, have a good reference, in nasa, Jared runs a TTS 02 zo6. Runs 5 seconds quicker laps around sebring, puts down 360 ish hp. Ran at nats, blew the motor on THURSDAY (opening day), but i believe still took 5th after only running the track less than 20 laps.

Car is amazing, however the only difference is straight line speed on the fast straightaways. Everywhere else, it's as you said, bumper to bumper.

Thats what i think is cool, imo.

 

Are you talking to me? If you are...you clearly have no idea what is going on here or what is being discussed. You cant compare high straight away speed of an Evo with basic bolt-ons that is coupled with a flash/chip to a Vette, or anything comparable of that stature. Besides top end power delivery differences, the Vette (and others) are much more aerodynamically efficient. Fix my car or up my exit speed? There is no way at 100+mph an Evo as such is going to keep up with it. No way! I dont have that much experience, but i have some. I must be doing something right if im just a few points shy of being the 2007 Socal TTA Regional Champion. Now im not claiming to be some expert, but what im stating is common knowledge. I dont know you, but maybe you simply havent been exposed to such levels of competition.

 

Ok. I don't want this to spin any father off topic than it has to this point but I'll stand by my facts. I was not the only person there and thank goodness the numbers add up. Back to that in a second.

I do admit that Saturday and Sunday were both cool and perfect days in Lexington. I was in fact running a mix of 93 and 100 and had the boost set at 19-20lbs. Not through the roof but it was a little hotter than my norm as a few other forum regulars and Evo owners were in attendance.

I would offer to find the driver of the 911 turbo in question as he was honestly disheartened at not dusting me by why would I need to? It's well documented that Evos given my level of mods will run 12.3 1/4s as my car has done previously. These numbers do not pale in comparison to the acceleration numbers of the cars I mention.

In short, the math and facts add up.

I'm once again not saying this to act as super man. I'm not, far from it. The Evo however is superman. It's a 4 door Clark Kent and with proper care and feeding the things are with very few peers.

Now, in the spirit of the post. Go out and buy a GSR, put on some decent rubber and decent binders with fresh fluid and go see what all the fuss is about!

 

You are so far off that im about to give up trying to explain. Are you reading the posts through and through? Neither of us are claiming the Evo is some dog or whatever it is youre thinking. And neither of us are talking about 1/4 mile times. What does that have to do with anything here? What does running a 1/4 mile from a STANDSTILL have anything to do with our posts? I dont know how else to explain it...i dont know how else to type it.

And i might as well throw this in while im at it...i never compare myself to anyone at a DE. DE's mean nothing. Not everyone at a DE is really out there competing for fastest lap. If im going to compare myself to anyone it will be at a NASA TT competition. I know the guys there are relatively fairly classed, theyre also relatively experienced competition drivers, and theyre all out there competing for fastest lap.

Moving on. Thats great, youre providing 1/4 mile times and comparing them to those vehicles. But that has nothing to do with a ROAD COURSE. So what if you can get your car to a 1/4 mile from a standstill in 12.3 seconds? We are discussing road courses and how the Evo (given the mods we addressed) compares to Vettes, and other comparable vehicles, on HIGH SPEED STRAIGHT AWAYS...eg 100+ mph, 130+ mph HIGH SPEED STRAIGHT AWAYS. After a certain speed, they pull away. Given SIMILAR POWER they WILL pull away. Why? Like i already said, besides top end power delivery, they are much more AERODYNAMICALLY EFFICIENT. Now does this mean the Evo sucks? No. I dont think i would be competing with it if i thought it flat out sucked.

Sorry about the caps. I cant remember the last time i had to use them. I just felt that you kept missing ALL the points that were being made. So dont take it the wrong way.

 

Guys,
Thanks for all the responses. Didn't mean for this to be a vette vs evo thing. Both great cars with pluses and minuses.

OK, to answer some questions I want a reasonable DD that can be used on the track for DE only 3 or 4 days a year, not an all out track or race car. I've learned from experience that I'm better off renting a race car and saving my tuesday, wednesday and thursday nights (and my marriage).

So, I don't want a cage or 3 degrees of negative camber and tires that last 2 months. Just a regular car that I can wail on at the track and then take the kids to soccer practise. M3, EVO and RS4 all seem like good candidates. 911, as much as I love them, is just too small.

I like the EVO because of the tinker factor and the fact that it's supposed to handle so well. Several people have mentioned a lot of understeer.... I've always heard that it's actually fairly easy to get this car to neutral/oversteer. Is that incorrect?

So, is it crazy to expect a 350 to 400hp DD with a neutral to oversteer balance out of an EVO without major daily issues? I don't want to have to constantly tinker with AFRs and change brake pads after every session. Maybe I'm expecting too much.

On another question, I do instruct with Chin and will be at sebring in my s2000 nov 11. Thanks again for the feedback.

-dc

 

350 can be realistic for a DD & track toy.. maybe just get some camber plates and add camber for those few 3-4 weekends a year.

....but 3-4 weekends a year sounds like not very much, maybe base your buying decision on the daily driver part more than track potential?

n

 

lol

Moving on. Does the Evo handle well? Sure. But since its AWD, it inherently will understeer. If you want to keep it simple and inexpensive at first, a few basic adjustments, like a better alignment and a RSB, will definitely make a difference, but since its AWD it will always understeer to a point. Beyond that, youre going to need some decent coilovers to induce significant handling characteristics. And you can find plenty of decent inexpensive coilovers. As far as power, with basic bolt-ons you can easily attain 300+whp on a dynojet, and a bit more with a 100 oct map. It has its advantages, and it also has its disadvantages, but overall, its a great performance car.