Hrm, I may already know you then. I also instruct for them

If you'd ever like a ride, let me know, i'd be glad to, won't be at the event in 2 weeks though, will probably run up at roebling though.

350-400 isn't outta line, but thats basically going to be close, or at the limit of the stock turbo, especially on pump gas.

You will want race pads to brown the brembro's, and some ra-1's would be great for the track, but won't last a ton of miles on the streets. Possibly a second set of wheels for track only?

Without upgrading the front rotors, or doing some cooling, you will get them hot, depending on how hard you're pushing.

The things that make the evo great on the track, are normally the things that make streetability suffer. (IE: sticky tires, race pads, higher spring rates, lower ride height.)

If sebastian is out there in his black evo 8, have a talk with him, thats an amazing car that he's just finally getting the bugs out of.

 

How to make it neutral/oversteer correctly. Watch the vid and call Rob http://robispec.com/main.html

I had Rob install rear swaybar, rear control arm bushing, and rear adjustable tow-link bushing. Stock everything else... it's a beautiful thing, very controlable oversteer when you want it, high stability in the sweepers, and hanging out in the slip angle is just fun with AWD...

Never driven a VIII, but the stock power in the IX is very nice. Scary even sometimes. I wouldn't, and haven't done more than just let it breathe a little better since getting used to the car.

 

Ok, let me use small words.

I have never said that the Evo is aerodynamically efficient. It is not.

My point was and is that the Evo is not easily walked which was the point that I took exception with. To me walked means driven away from briskly as if left for dead. I have been on track with Vipers and not been walked. Pulled a bit yes, never walked. If you have trouble grasping that please feel free to IM me. I'll draw pictures.

Now as for 1/4 mile times and how they apply to the discussion. Its this thing called ACCELERATION. It's about taking an object at one speed, applying force and making it go faster. Its most often a function of mass and force and a few other tricky concepts I'll leave for another time but overall one form of acceleration will apply well enough to help illustrate a point. Seems this may be lost at the given time.

Now as for the Evo sucking. No, I don't think anyone said that.

What I do think is that the OP asked about an Evo as a DD which could be used as a track toy now and then. My posts were aimed at giving information as to which model would best suit their needs as well as the concept that the stock Evo was slow which was in fact something I took exception with. If the point was not that the car was slow and that it was simply aerodynamically inefficient then I guess I need to change my concept of what "everybody (except the miatas) walks you down the straights" means.

Now Pepsi's post and thought may be true. I don't know as I have not tracked a stock Evo. I bought mine with several of the mods it now has on it.

Once again, my point was that with simple bolt ons, power is not a problem.

I stand beside that.

By the way, power and "Look ma, I'm going fast" is not why I love my car. It is very well balanced overall. Off the charts performance per dollar and it changes direction about as well as a cat on crystal meth. My favorite application to this point is enjoying the back roads of SE Ohio. This car eats up uneven pavement and finds traction and poise in almost magical ways. The only other car I have driven which is close is the STI which is the only other platform I would myself consider if not for the Evo. Then again that is a personal choice issue and other POVs are valid given the needs, goals and likes of the person paying the bills.

In addition, the car is VERY easy to drive fast. It's as others have pointed out almost boring in some regards. I have to be very mindful on public roads as driving at a pace which is "fun" is also fast enough to get me shot by local law enforcement. Very smooth, fast, capable platform and I like mine more than a little.

 

see, but thats the problem you're not understanding 100%.

If you're exiting a corner as fast, or faster than the car ahead of you, but they put 10-15 (read 25-30 in new z06) car lengths on you down the straight, that to me is "getting walked.", or in some cases, "gettin run".

Regardless, a stock turbo'd evo putting down over 350 isn't exactly going to be super dooper reliable. Sure, slap on a touch bigger turbo and it's fine, but to throw down 350 on a mustang dyno, takes a bit. Especially down here where it's hot year round.

Regardless, evo, vette, viper, audi, etc. Its all about driving the car, tracking it and having fun, getting better, but staying within your limits.

I do have one final question though, dsycks. If you're running around mid-O, and running porsches, vipers, what-have you, what kinda lap times, and on what configuration are you turning them? Thanks.

 

You just dont get it. I dont know how much competition experience you have, that might be the reason why you dont understand. And like i already said, comparing yourself to others at DEs is pretty silly and useless. If you want a more reasonable comparison, go run a season of TT events. Better yet, simply go check out the lap times of this years National results. Even better, you could also go ask everyone who runs in TTA on their thoughts. Its obvious that you dont believe me, nor do you believe WarmPepsi. Keep in mind that everyones perspective might vary depending on the region, but the National results speak for themselves. Unless, do you already compete with NASA in their TT program? If so, what region do you compete in? That will help a great deal to shed some light on this matter. I too have come across my share of Vettes, GT3s, GT3 RS, Vipers, Lambos, Ferraris...but i never compare myself to them if its a DE. Its silly to say the least. Running in some DE does not come close to an actual competition like TT.

As far as your acceleration example...accelerating from a "standstill" to a 1/4 mile doesnt do any good in this discussion. I dont know what sort of road courses youre running, but i dont know of any road courses that requires one to come to a complete stop on the track. Just to refresh your memory, were talking about high speed straight aways. I dont know why you dont understand why your 1/4 mile acceleration point has no bearing on what were stating. Bottom line is, after a certain speed (based on the type of mods weve been noting) the top end power delivery of the Evo, coupled with its lack of aerodynamic efficiency (compared to those vehicles) becomes its downfall. Simply put, you come out of a corner that leads you to a long enough straight away, (without turning this into some semantics debate) they will pull away.

 

Yes, that will also shed a great deal of light on this matter. If you compete at the Regional level in that area, then maybe you were at Nationals. Were you at Nationals? Im also curious to know, (a) how many events youve done with your Evo, (b) how many of them were competitions, (c) what sort of competitions they were?

 

that is the one and only benefit of nasa, is having a hard time that you can hang your hat on.

This thread is pretty much completely lost, but it is going in a direction at least

dsycks, with the times you gave me, I don't understand how you're hanging around vettes or porsches, unless honestly the drivers are not pushing the cars.

I've run mid-o one weekend. Robi got the car done down here in florida, with no sleep, and i drove up and tracked it at mid-o, with the chicane. When i got to the track, i realized i had over 2 INCHES of rear toe out, instead of the 1/16th of an inch, that was set. The rear toe bolts were loose. No biggie, you always check everything.

I started off in the 49's, and got down to the 46's, not feeling the track at all. I'm running toe to toe with spec miatas, and i don't have a thing for them, except down that straight. everywhere else, they are having their way with me. They're running 47's and 46's. I'm out in a fresh setup, incorrect alignment, first time on the track, stock powered (factory boost), on full tread ra1's.

I guess at it, and get the toe looking better (as good as you can visually), and start knocking off seconds a session on the sunday, getting down to a pair of 43's in essentially a horribly prepared, but TTB legal car.

I ran gingerman raceway, then came back and ran sebring on the same setup (ra-1's only getting better). I couldn't top the 2.36 that i'll run in a 100% STOCK evo.

The car was that far off. Sebring is a track i've run...20-25 times. I know the track. And i could only match stock times.

To say that with your times, you're hanging with faster cars, when the times are close to a spec miata time, i just have a hard time understanding. Unless you're THAT fast down the straights, but that slow in the corners, I don't understand.

No offense man, i don't know your experience level, but the math you're telling me doesn't add up. Especially when the top TTA evo ran 1.38 at nationals, falling to not 1, but 4 TTA vettes (that were 3 seconds+ quicker), which all are midwest/indiana/ohio members, in your region.

/rant

All I'm saying is that you're overconfident, and over-claiming of the evo's straight line speed ability. The evo does not gain the speed in the straights, it gains it in the corners. Wish you the best of luck runnin out there, and one day maybe i'll be at the same event, and you can show me how your slower car, that runs with vettes, is faster than my faster car, that does not.

thx.

 

Back on topic...

It's important to distinguish btw handling and balance. The Evo has great handling: excellent steering feedback and reponse to throttle-steering. Balance-wise, it tends toward understeer as any 60:40 weight-distro car will. To eliminate the understeer you'll need lots of camber up front and higher-rate springs in back. Front spacers will also help.

If you add more power and especially if you run RA1s or stickier tires you absolutely will need to swap brake pads. Period, end of story. If you know how to brake then you'll probably also need brake ducting and/or a BBK in front. Once again, thank the crappy weight distro for this.

Power wise, go with an Evo9 and get an exhaust, fuel pump, injectors and get dyno-tune. That will make 360+ crank hp easily and be quite reliable.

 

IMHO if you leave the evo stock it is a good choice for what you are looking for if you are ok with the power level. Once you start to tinker however issues will arise that will require your time and money not to mention your warranty goes out the window. If you have the money it might be a good idea to buy something that will make you happy on the street and the track without having to do mods otherwise welcome to going through hundreds of threads on EvoM filled mostly with petty arguments and occasionally with the information you actually need. Not saying I don't love my Evo, I'm just saying.

 

very true, you will be swapping pads if running r-comps, it's pretty much guaranteed. However, each session? nah

You will also overheat the stock front rotors fairly quick, as they just can't shed the heat as quick as the 2 pieces do. But if you're not going more than 8/10's, you may be just fine with the stock rotors, if you're just out for fun, and not an ultimate lap time.

 

Im always open to discussions as such. But for some reason he just does not understand. And you cant have a discussion as such with someone who just doesnt get it. Im not talking out of my *** here, and neither are you. Im not talking about Joe blow the weekend warrior who goes toe to toe with 500+hp Vipers, Vettes, GT3s told me so. Everything im stating is based on what i have experienced, not to mention what pretty much everyone else has experienced COMPETING with NASA in TT.

So he sent you a PM or something with his times and what not? If he can answer my questions, ill have a better idea of what hes talking about...and maybe then i can do a better job of explaining to him what pretty much everyone who is competing in TT already understands. It is as if everyone who competes in TTA (at the Regional and or National level) is wrong, and this guy who we have no info on, is right.

 

just to clarify a couple things, long as you have a stock turbo, if you use 100 oct with proper tuning, you can pretty much run as much boost as you want and do not need a fp or injectors on an evo 9. Stock rotors are fine no issues, they get red hot if you push it but they will be there for you long as you have good pads and good brake fluid.
Marty

 

Yes, if you start tinkering with your car, then theres always the possibility that you might have to spend more money than you had expected to fine tune it. You have to pay to play. However, understand this, that applies to all vehicles.

 

i agree, but i'm not the kinda guy to be like "you're wrong" even if you're wrong, because i want you to explain your reasoning to me.

You and I both run tta, and i took my region this year, with little competition (florida's kinda slow in getting into TT). But still, i have a good feeling for whats right and believeable, and whats not.

 

Hah. Understood, and i completely agree, but you can only explain so much online in a thread that is intended for something else. Beyond a few responses, threads get way too off topic. I dont mind explaining, but if someone does not have the capacity to understand something beyond a few responses, i dont know if there is any good in attempting to explain page after page in a thread that is intended for something else. If for whatever reason he doesnt want to answer my questions in this thread, hes welcome to PM me his answers and i will try my best to explain through PM.

As far as the TTA competition in Florida, i sort of understand. The competition in Norcal for TTA seems to be great, i only wish it was like that in Socal also. Instead, the competition in TTB is fierce here in Socal. There have been a few of us competing in Socal in TTA, but not everyone shows up all the time. The only other person who has been showing up regularly is this guy in a 05 STi. Its been fun beating him since hes on coilovers. And our fastest guy in TTA (who has an Evo), moved recently to the East coast...i believe hes going to compete at the Ohio/Indiana region, lucky him. I really hope it changes a bit next season. Im winning here, but im not even close to being maximized for TTA, heck im still on stock suspension. Although, i really wanted to compete at Nationals this year for the overall experience, but unfortunately i couldnt afford it. Its in the books for next season. Btw, im going to shoot you a PM later.