EVO performance on a Track?
Originally posted by CincyEvo
I took my 3 week old, bone-stock Evo to Putnam Park race track in Indiana last evening for a lapping day. It was the fastest "door slammer" there, except for the Ferrari F40 and the T1 SCCA Z-06 (which wsa on race rubber, and still wasn't all that much faster). It was faster then the RX-7's, Porsche 911's, including 2 turbos, Z-3 M Coupe, and a supercharged Mustang Cobra, among others, a few of which were on race rubber. It did not overheat, the brakes did not fade, the tires squealed non-stop but had decent grip, I got 4 mpg.
The car is a bit of a "dancing pig" on corner entry, with some push and body roll, mostly due to running on street rubber that was not nearly equal to the car's mamouth on-track capability. About 1/2 thru each turn, however, it really hooked up and the all-wheel drive & turbo power launched it forward with a huge lunge to the next corner.
It could not keep up with the Cobra or 911 turbos on the straight (altho it was not left in their dust either), but it really left them behind in the curves, especially with its excellent exit speed. The handling was not unsettled by hitting the curbs and, on one tight right hander, the fast line was with the 2 outside tires just on the track and the rest of the car in the grass, in true rally fashion.
How fast was it? I was turning high 1'24's and low 1'25's. A friend who came in 2nd at the SCCA Runoffs a while back in his T2 Mustang Cobra was turning mid 1'22's on Hoosier race rubber, racing shocks, race seat, full harness, racing brake pads, etc., when he was at Putnam recently. On my Miata, race tires are worth 5-6" a lap there, so 1 1'18"-1'20" does not seem impossible for the Evo, which is Viper territory there.
I took my 3 week old, bone-stock Evo to Putnam Park race track in Indiana last evening for a lapping day. It was the fastest "door slammer" there, except for the Ferrari F40 and the T1 SCCA Z-06 (which wsa on race rubber, and still wasn't all that much faster). It was faster then the RX-7's, Porsche 911's, including 2 turbos, Z-3 M Coupe, and a supercharged Mustang Cobra, among others, a few of which were on race rubber. It did not overheat, the brakes did not fade, the tires squealed non-stop but had decent grip, I got 4 mpg.
The car is a bit of a "dancing pig" on corner entry, with some push and body roll, mostly due to running on street rubber that was not nearly equal to the car's mamouth on-track capability. About 1/2 thru each turn, however, it really hooked up and the all-wheel drive & turbo power launched it forward with a huge lunge to the next corner.
It could not keep up with the Cobra or 911 turbos on the straight (altho it was not left in their dust either), but it really left them behind in the curves, especially with its excellent exit speed. The handling was not unsettled by hitting the curbs and, on one tight right hander, the fast line was with the 2 outside tires just on the track and the rest of the car in the grass, in true rally fashion.
How fast was it? I was turning high 1'24's and low 1'25's. A friend who came in 2nd at the SCCA Runoffs a while back in his T2 Mustang Cobra was turning mid 1'22's on Hoosier race rubber, racing shocks, race seat, full harness, racing brake pads, etc., when he was at Putnam recently. On my Miata, race tires are worth 5-6" a lap there, so 1 1'18"-1'20" does not seem impossible for the Evo, which is Viper territory there.
Originally posted by zx6r
Wow, 4 and 5.9 mpg. The Evo sure gets thristy round a track.
Anyone know how many mpg a corvette or Porsche would get around the same track with a similar time ?
Wow, 4 and 5.9 mpg. The Evo sure gets thristy round a track.
Anyone know how many mpg a corvette or Porsche would get around the same track with a similar time ?
Originally posted by tsi90awd
evonick wrote:
I've used the car at driving schools at Road America and Blackhawk farms, plus an autocross last week.
evonick wrote:
I've used the car at driving schools at Road America and Blackhawk farms, plus an autocross last week.
any chance you were at Blackhawk about 3 weekends ago? My dad has taken his 2001 Silver Porsche Carerra (?? maybe 2001 not sure) down there a couple of times and just wondering if you seen him lol..... older guy proally with his hair in a pony tail.
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From: Cincinnati, OH
Mayhem:
Were you there for the Sat-Sun drivers' school? I was there for the Friday night open track deal, which included 4 Ferrari's( F-40 & 333P, among others). I was giving rides to lots of spectators, many of whom were thinking about buying an Evo, but had not been able to persuade their dealer to give them a test drive. Everyone was impressed with the car's performance & I think I sold some Evo's for Mitsu.
As far as my times, I have done lapping days at Putnam Park 10-12 times so I know the track very well.
Were you there for the Sat-Sun drivers' school? I was there for the Friday night open track deal, which included 4 Ferrari's( F-40 & 333P, among others). I was giving rides to lots of spectators, many of whom were thinking about buying an Evo, but had not been able to persuade their dealer to give them a test drive. Everyone was impressed with the car's performance & I think I sold some Evo's for Mitsu.
As far as my times, I have done lapping days at Putnam Park 10-12 times so I know the track very well.
Originally posted by CincyEvo
Mayhem:
Were you there for the Sat-Sun drivers' school?
Mayhem:
Were you there for the Sat-Sun drivers' school?
Even with my times that hold nothing to yours, I still either sold some Evo's or PO'd some 2 door sport car owners.
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From: Cincinnati, OH
Mayhem:
It is very unusual for a rookie on street tires to get below 1'35" at Putnam, no matter what the car. A Ferrari Modena was doing 1'40" + laps that Friday night & he was allegedly an experienced driver.
It is very unusual for a rookie on street tires to get below 1'35" at Putnam, no matter what the car. A Ferrari Modena was doing 1'40" + laps that Friday night & he was allegedly an experienced driver.
Originally posted by CincyEvo
Mayhem:
It is very unusual for a rookie on street tires to get below 1'35" at Putnam, no matter what the car. A Ferrari Modena was doing 1'40" + laps that Friday night & he was allegedly an experienced driver.
Mayhem:
It is very unusual for a rookie on street tires to get below 1'35" at Putnam, no matter what the car. A Ferrari Modena was doing 1'40" + laps that Friday night & he was allegedly an experienced driver.
If I have the money I want to go again for that Lotus event. I know a couple here in a Louisville who are each getting their own Lotus...how cool!
If they head up there I might be in follow.
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From: Cincinnati, OH
You could probably cut 1" by just dropping your tire pressue to 35/30.
I stayed in 4th on the staight stretch, went to third just before turn 1, stayed in 3rd to turn 7, where I dropped to 2nd briefly, then back to 3rd just after turn 7 & stayed in 3rd until just after turn 10 where I went to 4th for the straight stretch. I was on the rev limiter in 3rd soon after the "S's"( turns 3 & 4), and very close to it again just before turn 7 & turn 9 (over 7K rpm). I found the huge, central tach to be very easy to read and very helpful. I tried to "connect the dots", i.e. launch from the exit curbing on each curve, late apex on the entrance curbing to each curve, and then drift over to the exit curbing of that curve, and then repeat. In other words, the location of the curbing suggests the best line.
The car was fast in a straight line but even faster in the twisties, which is where I was able to catch even the most powerful cars, but the 'Vette. Even there we were dead even. He pulled me on the straight tho.
I stayed in 4th on the staight stretch, went to third just before turn 1, stayed in 3rd to turn 7, where I dropped to 2nd briefly, then back to 3rd just after turn 7 & stayed in 3rd until just after turn 10 where I went to 4th for the straight stretch. I was on the rev limiter in 3rd soon after the "S's"( turns 3 & 4), and very close to it again just before turn 7 & turn 9 (over 7K rpm). I found the huge, central tach to be very easy to read and very helpful. I tried to "connect the dots", i.e. launch from the exit curbing on each curve, late apex on the entrance curbing to each curve, and then drift over to the exit curbing of that curve, and then repeat. In other words, the location of the curbing suggests the best line.
The car was fast in a straight line but even faster in the twisties, which is where I was able to catch even the most powerful cars, but the 'Vette. Even there we were dead even. He pulled me on the straight tho.
Originally posted by CincyEvo
You could probably cut 1" by just dropping your tire pressue to 35/30.
I stayed in 4th on the staight stretch, went to third just before turn 1, stayed in 3rd to turn 7, where I dropped to 2nd briefly, then back to 3rd just after turn 7 & stayed in 3rd until just after turn 10 where I went to 4th for the straight stretch. I was on the rev limiter in 3rd soon after the "S's"( turns 3 & 4), and very close to it again just before turn 7 & turn 9 (over 7K rpm). I found the huge, central tach to be very easy to read and very helpful. I tried to "connect the dots", i.e. launch from the exit curbing on each curve, late apex on the entrance curbing to each curve, and then drift over to the exit curbing of that curve, and then repeat. In other words, the location of the curbing suggests the best line.
The car was fast in a straight line but even faster in the twisties, which is where I was able to catch even the most powerful cars, but the 'Vette. Even there we were dead even. He pulled me on the straight tho.
You could probably cut 1" by just dropping your tire pressue to 35/30.
I stayed in 4th on the staight stretch, went to third just before turn 1, stayed in 3rd to turn 7, where I dropped to 2nd briefly, then back to 3rd just after turn 7 & stayed in 3rd until just after turn 10 where I went to 4th for the straight stretch. I was on the rev limiter in 3rd soon after the "S's"( turns 3 & 4), and very close to it again just before turn 7 & turn 9 (over 7K rpm). I found the huge, central tach to be very easy to read and very helpful. I tried to "connect the dots", i.e. launch from the exit curbing on each curve, late apex on the entrance curbing to each curve, and then drift over to the exit curbing of that curve, and then repeat. In other words, the location of the curbing suggests the best line.
The car was fast in a straight line but even faster in the twisties, which is where I was able to catch even the most powerful cars, but the 'Vette. Even there we were dead even. He pulled me on the straight tho.
I agree that the tach was very easy to use on the track. The needle stayed above 4K most of the time so it was always right there to see.
Are your recommended tire pressures hot or cold? I assume 35 for the front and 30 for the rear. That's a lot lower than what I was using, unless it's the front cold which is exactly what I was using. When hot the fronts got to 39-40 psi.
Last edited by mayhem; Jul 29, 2003 at 07:08 AM.
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From: Cincinnati, OH
The tire pressures were on track, so very hot, I checked them cold & it was 30 front, 27 rear, and my hunch that was still too much air-the lower pressure was in rear. I tried doing the course in 4th gear and was much slower, I needed to be above 5K to make serious power and the closer to redline, the faster I got, which is probably why my mileage stunk.
I stayed just off the rev limiter after turn 4, rather that shift out of 3rd & shift back for turn 5 because I agree it's a tough corner. So, I wanted to focus on getting it right rather than shifting. I wld back off the thottle & push the brake moderately hard at 5 and then turn in and hammer the throttle just after I apexed, and be flat out thru 6 up to 7 & then lock em up & slow for that v sharp right hand turn &, like you, once I had the car turned in, I wld be hard on the gas all the way thu it. This was the curve that I found the fastest line to be putting the entire car, except the outside tires, in the grass. The car had no trouble with off roading. I saw numerous cars push wide and go off at this turn trying to stay with the Evo.
I stayed just off the rev limiter after turn 4, rather that shift out of 3rd & shift back for turn 5 because I agree it's a tough corner. So, I wanted to focus on getting it right rather than shifting. I wld back off the thottle & push the brake moderately hard at 5 and then turn in and hammer the throttle just after I apexed, and be flat out thru 6 up to 7 & then lock em up & slow for that v sharp right hand turn &, like you, once I had the car turned in, I wld be hard on the gas all the way thu it. This was the curve that I found the fastest line to be putting the entire car, except the outside tires, in the grass. The car had no trouble with off roading. I saw numerous cars push wide and go off at this turn trying to stay with the Evo.
CincyEvo,
Are you going to be doing any autox'ing at Scarlet this year? I think I race with a friend of yours in ESP..Greg (green 300z). He was telling me about your trip to Putnam and how you did. I think he said that you were running about 5 seconds quicker than you did in your race Miata.
Btw, I'm surprised at the low tire pressures. What is run for autox would be a little different though. I run about 42/38 autox'ing.
I'd love to make it to Putnam sometime this year.
Are you going to be doing any autox'ing at Scarlet this year? I think I race with a friend of yours in ESP..Greg (green 300z). He was telling me about your trip to Putnam and how you did. I think he said that you were running about 5 seconds quicker than you did in your race Miata.
Btw, I'm surprised at the low tire pressures. What is run for autox would be a little different though. I run about 42/38 autox'ing.
I'd love to make it to Putnam sometime this year.
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From: Cincinnati, OH
Broeli:
No current plans to auto-x this year. I think the Evo is more suited to the open track, with its minimal hard launches and where its power can be better used. Also I helped run the auto-x club at Scarlet Oaks for the last 7 years & was ready for a breather. But, you never know.
I think auto-xing is an excellent way to learn car control and is a good building block for eventual track days/racing. I know it helped me a lot.
No current plans to auto-x this year. I think the Evo is more suited to the open track, with its minimal hard launches and where its power can be better used. Also I helped run the auto-x club at Scarlet Oaks for the last 7 years & was ready for a breather. But, you never know.
I think auto-xing is an excellent way to learn car control and is a good building block for eventual track days/racing. I know it helped me a lot.
Cincy,
Did you experience any rotor warpage afterwards? I drove my Evo for the first time last night since I've been back and I'm pretty sure some of them are warped. I can feel pulsing i the pedal now. My brake pedal still feels soft from the event too. Someone in the tech section mentioned that my fluid may have boiled and I should bleed it with something else. I typically use Valvoline Synpower brake fluid in my other vehicles, but on the track it was whatever Mitsu had put in there. When I went the fluid was still new and clear. Anyway, is the Valvoline OK, it has a higher BP than most or should I switch to something more drastic like Motul?
Did you experience any rotor warpage afterwards? I drove my Evo for the first time last night since I've been back and I'm pretty sure some of them are warped. I can feel pulsing i the pedal now. My brake pedal still feels soft from the event too. Someone in the tech section mentioned that my fluid may have boiled and I should bleed it with something else. I typically use Valvoline Synpower brake fluid in my other vehicles, but on the track it was whatever Mitsu had put in there. When I went the fluid was still new and clear. Anyway, is the Valvoline OK, it has a higher BP than most or should I switch to something more drastic like Motul?