I'm in BSP with stock suspension on my Evo X. What can be gained from installing a bigger rear swaybar and is it a worthwhile upgrade? I'm under the impression that when you put on a bigger rear swaybar, you take away some traction from the front tires which helps turn-in and rotating the car.
I don't want to go through the hassle of changing the front swaybar just yet. Might do it if it's worth it around the same time the stock clutch gives out. Don't have the money for a coilover set either.
I don't want to go through the hassle of changing the front swaybar just yet. Might do it if it's worth it around the same time the stock clutch gives out. Don't have the money for a coilover set either.
Evolved Member
Are you going to be running r-comps?
The stock suspension is the weakest link. Anything that can help keep it planted is a good thing. Turn-in and rotation-ability are not helped by removing traction from the front tires, but rather the rear.
The stock suspension is the weakest link. Anything that can help keep it planted is a good thing. Turn-in and rotation-ability are not helped by removing traction from the front tires, but rather the rear.
Evolving Member
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You're on the right track, but you have it backwards. Put simply, a rear sway bar takes traction away from the rear wheels and transfers it to the front. That's what allows the car to rotate better - more front grip.Originally Posted by simons
I'm under the impression that when you put on a bigger rear swaybar, you take away some traction from the front tires which helps turn-in and rotating the car.
Evolved Member
Edit: nevermind.. already said.. bigger rear sway loosens the rear.
Can anything be gained by just installing a rear swaybar? Or is there something else that I should do first? I thought by putting on a bigger rear swaybar, it reduces bodyroll and allows more of a contact patch to stay on the ground.
goofygrin- I'm on the stock Yokohama Advan A13C's. When these tires are done, I'm looking at the Star Spec's. Or if they come out, Nitto NT05(Feb) or Bridgestone RE11(Mar).
goofygrin- I'm on the stock Yokohama Advan A13C's. When these tires are done, I'm looking at the Star Spec's. Or if they come out, Nitto NT05(Feb) or Bridgestone RE11(Mar).
Evolved Member
All of those tires are street tires. You'll be outclassed in BSP if you're on street tires (among other things). Does your region have a T/Street Tire class (here they have a PAX'ed class for cars on street tires in a class that allows r-compounds).
And yes, just installing the rear sway will help keep the car from tripoding and will allow you better turning and power out of turns because the rear will have more contact. You'll need it eventually.
And yes, just installing the rear sway will help keep the car from tripoding and will allow you better turning and power out of turns because the rear will have more contact. You'll need it eventually.
Evolved Member
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And yes, just installing the rear sway will help keep the car from tripoding and will allow you better turning and power out of turns because the rear will have more contact. You'll need it eventually.
Actually, you are wrong here.Originally Posted by goofygrin
And yes, just installing the rear sway will help keep the car from tripoding and will allow you better turning and power out of turns because the rear will have more contact. You'll need it eventually.
The tripoding that occurs has more to do with front roll stiffness than rear. Adding a rear swaybar will only hike the inside rear more, not less. If this happens for an extended period during the corner you will lose the ability to get on the throttle very early, which is a major upside of the evo (and totally necessary with the 2.0l vs the 2.5 in the Sti).
There are several fast guys who don't have the tripoding anymore and the fix never included a rear swaybar, it's all in the front.
Evolved Member
I trust you're correct, but I'm trying to visualize it in my head.
Stiffer front, no twisting of the front of the car, no twisting on the rear?
I'm imagining that a stiffer rear bar will want to pull down the inside wheel because of the nature of how a sway bar works.
Edit, sorry I'm stupid. If the car is leaning, the fact that the inside wheel is tied tightly to the outside wheel means it can't droop to hit the ground. I knew I'd figure it out lol.
Stiffer front, no twisting of the front of the car, no twisting on the rear?
I'm imagining that a stiffer rear bar will want to pull down the inside wheel because of the nature of how a sway bar works.
Edit, sorry I'm stupid. If the car is leaning, the fact that the inside wheel is tied tightly to the outside wheel means it can't droop to hit the ground. I knew I'd figure it out lol.
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The tripoding that occurs has more to do with front roll stiffness than rear. Adding a rear swaybar will only hike the inside rear more, not less. If this happens for an extended period during the corner you will lose the ability to get on the throttle very early, which is a major upside of the evo (and totally necessary with the 2.0l vs the 2.5 in the Sti).
There are several fast guys who don't have the tripoding anymore and the fix never included a rear swaybar, it's all in the front.
So you're saying that just a front swaybar upgrade is all you need?Originally Posted by kekek
Actually, you are wrong here.The tripoding that occurs has more to do with front roll stiffness than rear. Adding a rear swaybar will only hike the inside rear more, not less. If this happens for an extended period during the corner you will lose the ability to get on the throttle very early, which is a major upside of the evo (and totally necessary with the 2.0l vs the 2.5 in the Sti).
There are several fast guys who don't have the tripoding anymore and the fix never included a rear swaybar, it's all in the front.
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And yes, just installing the rear sway will help keep the car from tripoding and will allow you better turning and power out of turns because the rear will have more contact. You'll need it eventually.
They do have that class around here. But I don't have money for an extra set of rims and tires. I also don't want to drive around on race tires all of the time. Just something better than stock tires would at least be a little better.Originally Posted by goofygrin
All of those tires are street tires. You'll be outclassed in BSP if you're on street tires (among other things). Does your region have a T/Street Tire class (here they have a PAX'ed class for cars on street tires in a class that allows r-compounds).And yes, just installing the rear sway will help keep the car from tripoding and will allow you better turning and power out of turns because the rear will have more contact. You'll need it eventually.
Evolved Member
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No. What I said is that a rear bar would not stop tripoding or the front leaning over.Originally Posted by simons
So you're saying that just a front swaybar upgrade is all you need?
A rear bar should help the car rotate and it will be more fun to drive. Is it going to shave seconds off your time, no. In autox tires are always the number one biggest improvement to the car, the first being the driver.
Evolved Member
I would disagree. Tires are so important that a mediocre driver on R-comps will be faster than a national level driver on streets. If you're in doubt of that, look at the Philly region AS results from 2006.
A front sway essentially keeps the front more level, which puts more weight on the inside rear, increasing rear grip. A rear sway will transfer weight quicker on the rear tires, breaking the rear end loose earlier. A rear bar will cure mid-corner push, at the cost of making the car tail-happy. If you can drive sideways fast, it will make you faster.
A front sway essentially keeps the front more level, which puts more weight on the inside rear, increasing rear grip. A rear sway will transfer weight quicker on the rear tires, breaking the rear end loose earlier. A rear bar will cure mid-corner push, at the cost of making the car tail-happy. If you can drive sideways fast, it will make you faster.
Evolved Member
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A front sway essentially keeps the front more level, which puts more weight on the inside rear, increasing rear grip. A rear sway will transfer weight quicker on the rear tires, breaking the rear end loose earlier. A rear bar will cure mid-corner push, at the cost of making the car tail-happy. If you can drive sideways fast, it will make you faster.
I'll take kekek in a BSP Evo on street tires over any "mediocre" driver on R-compounds in the same car. Originally Posted by GTLocke13
I would disagree. Tires are so important that a mediocre driver on R-comps will be faster than a national level driver on streets. If you're in doubt of that, look at the Philly region AS results from 2006.A front sway essentially keeps the front more level, which puts more weight on the inside rear, increasing rear grip. A rear sway will transfer weight quicker on the rear tires, breaking the rear end loose earlier. A rear bar will cure mid-corner push, at the cost of making the car tail-happy. If you can drive sideways fast, it will make you faster.
Dave
What company's rear swaybars would be on top of your list of choices? For me, it's probably between Robispec, WORKS, or Perrin. Although Perrin's isn't available yet. Definitely going to get a solid bar I think.
Evolved Member
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Add the hollow Hotchkis or the popular, Progress 25mm 3-way adj.Originally Posted by simons
What company's rear swaybars would be on top of your list of choices? For me, it's probably between Robispec, WORKS, or Perrin. Although Perrin's isn't available yet. Definitely going to get a solid bar I think.
Dave