Toe Plate and Camber Gauge Recommendation

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Feb 19, 2009 | 12:07 PM
  #16  
I use the smart camber digital gauge for my home spun alignments. Jackstands and string work the best for toe adjustment.

just remember that the track width on the evo is the same front to rear. the more precise you are with the string alignment (parallel to the spindles, not the body) the better your toe and thrust settings will be.

just be sure that you have a very very flat spot to do the base alignment. this is key to a good alignment. I prefer to use a garage floor, but have used a concrete pad in a carport as an alternative.
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Feb 19, 2009 | 04:19 PM
  #17  
Can someone explain the jackstand/string thing. I've never seen this done before. . . but I don't get out much
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Feb 19, 2009 | 04:51 PM
  #18  
Quote: Can someone explain the jackstand/string thing. I've never seen this done before. . . but I don't get out much
It's easy. the string method not only allows you to set your toe, but maintain the thrust alignment and also prevents you from setting the toe unevenly from left to right.

Ideally, you want to set the toe on each wheel relative to the centerline of the car. That is, the measurement of toe should be equal on the left and right as measured from the centerline of the car.

Since it's a PIA to measure accuratly from the centerline of the car, strings are used on either side of the car, parallel to the centerline of the car itself. Now you have an easy way to measure toe so that each wheel has the same angle left to right...

to get this right you need to make sure that the strings are exactly parallel to the centerline of the car.

here is a good article (ok product page) that describes the problem in better detail than I can.

http://www.smartracingproducts.com/alignment.htm
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Feb 19, 2009 | 05:02 PM
  #19  
Here in lies the biggest problem with home alignments on the evo. The rear suspension. That multilink is such a pain in the ***.

The one issue with string alignments and that rear suspension is this: The distance from hub center (or spindle) VARIES with respect to the vehicle centerline. When you adjust camber or toe using the eccentrics it effectively shifts the hub position.

The rear will never be perfect without a nice rack.

Chrisw, good link, thanks.

I actually built myself a setup similar to smart strings to do alignments. It seems to work ok and the front is pretty good. I have a good amount of trouble getting the rear straight.

Here's some pics of it on the S2k.
http://holunfie.blogspot.com/2008/03/s2k-setup.html

John
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Feb 19, 2009 | 06:17 PM
  #20  
Quote: Here in lies the biggest problem with home alignments on the evo. The rear suspension. That multilink is such a pain in the ***.
But there's another side to that coin. Because the rear camber curve is pretty good, you don't have to mess with the rear as often as the front. It's also not as sensitive to small changes as the front is.

Everybody who street driver their car (that I know) uses the same rear settings for the rear. Does anybody run an appreciable amount of toe out in back? I haven't found it necessary. I don't run toe-in, like you might in a RWD car, but I haven't needed toe out to get rotation.

d
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Feb 19, 2009 | 08:00 PM
  #21  
Quote: Can someone explain the jackstand/string thing. I've never seen this done before. . . but I don't get out much
I found this today. Excellent self-alignment vid here:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...eck-video.html
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Feb 19, 2009 | 09:26 PM
  #22  
That's the vid I used to get me started a while back.

I just sent my 6MR to 0 toe front and back. 1.3 camber all around. Came out pretty good. Camber seems to waver a tenth depending on conditions, because I have done the measuring now for a couple of weeks to get a relative idea of accuracy and variance.

I likely have 1.4 on the passenger front and 1.2 on the driver.

But, what learned (too late, because I'm lazy and didn't read the FSM first) was that the front camber bolts aren't actually adjustable, They are just settable to 1 of 2 settings. -1 or -2, eventhough neither of those are actually -1 or -2. Its more like -1ish plus and minus .5ish.

I found the back was much more controllable and easy to set.

String was very accurate, once you get a system you can easily identify the slightest turn of the bolts. The trick is more about settling the car to reflect the change. Sometimes your adjustment is absorbed in the bushings and will unload later. I found that salt between my shin plates (like in the vid) made all the difference.

My question for the experienced guys here is, when the rear squats will that toe in or toe out the rear wheels. Is the factory -1 setting/suggestion anticipate some toe out under drive or acceleration? What are your comments on my settings for a daily driver 10 times a year track car max.

M
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Feb 20, 2009 | 06:39 AM
  #23  
Quote: That's the vid I used to get me started a while back.

I just sent my 6MR to 0 toe front and back. 1.3 camber all around. Came out pretty good. ......

My question for the experienced guys here is, when the rear squats will that toe in or toe out the rear wheels. Is the factory -1 setting/suggestion anticipate some toe out under drive or acceleration? What are your comments on my settings for a daily driver 10 times a year track car max.

M
Usually don't see a car set to the same camber all around. Usually there's more in the front to help the car turn; as much as double for track cars (but that's extreme).
That being said, -1.3 isn't too much. So throw out some simple numbers, I would think something like -2f/-1r would be a good DD with occaisional track. Once you get past -2.5 you start getting a lot of premature wear. Trust me, a 300 mile trip with -3.5 up front really shows quickly!
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Feb 20, 2009 | 07:58 AM
  #24  
Quote: That's the vid I used to get me started a while back.

I just sent my 6MR to 0 toe front and back. 1.3 camber all around. Came out pretty good. Camber seems to waver a tenth depending on conditions, because I have done the measuring now for a couple of weeks to get a relative idea of accuracy and variance.


I likely have 1.4 on the passenger front and 1.2 on the driver.
your camber is changing because the surface you aligned the car is not level!!!

if you use a carpenters level I am sure that you will find that the surface that you aligned the car on has a slope that is within the difference between the left and right camber settings.

it's critical to have a level surface.

Quote:

But, what learned (too late, because I'm lazy and didn't read the FSM first) was that the front camber bolts aren't actually adjustable, They are just settable to 1 of 2 settings. -1 or -2, eventhough neither of those are actually -1 or -2. Its more like -1ish plus and minus .5ish.

I found the back was much more controllable and easy to set.

String was very accurate, once you get a system you can easily identify the slightest turn of the bolts. The trick is more about settling the car to reflect the change. Sometimes your adjustment is absorbed in the bushings and will unload later. I found that salt between my shin plates (like in the vid) made all the difference.
I used to use slip plates (which were very expensive and didn't slip that well) I used to work for Dinan, and Steve Dinan suggested that I use garbage bags under the wheels to allow them to slip. (very important) This allows you to set the alignment and lets the suspension settle.

the garbage bags are actually very effective...

Quote:

My question for the experienced guys here is, when the rear squats will that toe in or toe out the rear wheels. Is the factory -1 setting/suggestion anticipate some toe out under drive or acceleration? What are your comments on my settings for a daily driver 10 times a year track car max.

M
That's the great part about hte multi-link suspension we have. There is virtually no change in toe or camber as the rear suspension moves through it's full motion. The car does have the tendancy to slightly toe out at full compression, but it's hardly measurable.

On a side note: This is different from the subies. On the WRX/STI, the suspension at full compression, goes to toe-in. My guess is that this helps stablize and straighten the car when the rally car lands after a jump. the evo keeps the camber and toe the same, leaving it up to the driver to maintain control.
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Feb 20, 2009 | 08:49 AM
  #25  
Thanks for the feedback.

I suspect my variance is due to the measuring tools. The surface is completely flat. I have water leveled (meaning bucket of water method) the garage, and shimmed under the wheels. Using a laser level and and aluminum extension for various other carpenter (bubble and digital) levels the gaps between my shims are dead flat.

What I notice from day to day of measuring and driving are the settling effects. However I am consistent within a tenth of a degree, and a mm for toe, and that is likely the limit for my tools and process.

The 1.3 camber, which is more accurately and averaging after multiple measurements on different days 1.2 LF, 1.4 RF, 1.3 RR, 1.3 LR, is more of a coincidence. I can't get any more camber out of the front stock bolts, so that is where I chose to stay, and in the back I wanted slightly more than -1.

Based on other comments do you guys think the variance of having less in back is important enough for me to re-adjust the rears to -1?

M
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Feb 24, 2009 | 02:21 PM
  #26  
I have the Longacre digital gauge and toe plates. One nice thing about the Longacre digital caster/camber gauge is the fact that you can calibrate (zero it out) it to the surface you are performing your measurements on. BTW I found the caster measurement feature useless from a practical perspective.
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Feb 24, 2009 | 03:11 PM
  #27  
Quote: That would be one option if I just wanted a generic alignment once a year. I doubt if Firestone would be too happy when I had the car in there 10 times a year telling them the exact settings I wanted . . . Plus, it's a little hard to drag the alignment rack to the track to test out different settings!
That's what I do, before a track day and after, I've had approximately 12 alignments in 2 years, and they honor all aftermarket parts. And yes, they'll use custom settings with no problems.
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