Yes, my car IS for sale. If someone wants it, they're getting a terrifically fast and proven ride. If not, I'm not going to cut the price in half to sell it, so I'm continuing my plans for 2012 in that event.

As for the safety, I've already got a proven cage builder in mind myself. And the class itself makes no difference how I'd build the cage or fire system - it'll be quality welded in cage and built to NASA specs either way! But I agree with your premise.

 

Cool, glad your considering stepping up. Link us your sale ad if you have one so we can check it out. But when it comes to the cage with these two classes it does matter, because if your "maxed" out in TTA points, you'll need to consider several things if going PTA. Cage wise in ST you have unlimited attachment points. But in PT your limited to 6 or 8 with specifications. As follows:

Super Touring
7.2 NASA CCR Section 15 and 18 Exceptions
All of the rules listed in the NASA CCR Sections 15 and 18 will apply, except, the following
rules will supercede those in the CCR:
CCR 15.6—Roll cages may be built to provide an unlimited amount of chassis stiffening.
Any number of cage mounting points may be used above the six (6) minimum
requirement, and, any number of additional tubes may be used above the minimum with
additional attachment points to the body, including tubes that penetrate the firewall.

Performance Touring
H. ROLL CAGES:
6-point (two main hoop, two rear brace, two forward hoop) roll cage designs constructed per the
NASA CCR may be utilized without a PT modification point assessment. Two additional
attachment points for either two foot-well bars or two bars to the front firewall (one on each side)
may be added without a PT modification point assessment. Additional bars and/or gusseting
within the structure of the cage are permitted without a PT modification point assessment.
Gusseting of the 6 (CCR) attachment points listed above is permitted without a PT modification
point assessment provided that the gussets are attached to the tube no further than six (6) inches
from the end of the tube, and to the chassis no further than six (6) inches from the end of the tube
where it terminates at the plate. Up to three additional attachment points solely for the purpose
of bars connecting “NASCAR” style driver-side door bars to the rocker panel are permitted
without a PT modification point assessment. Additional attachment points within the driver’s
compartment that exceed these allowances are also permitted, but will be assessed points as
follows:
1) One or more bars that penetrate the front bulkhead/firewall +2
2) Any other attachment point to the chassis +2
(Note: It is considered a safety hazard to cut through bars without removing them in order to
avoid the modification point assessments above.)

Also consider the rest of the car lasting the 30+ minute races which I'm sure you have. What changes have you planned thus far? Brands, mounting locations, etc.

 

The National numbers for PTA look OK, but as you know PTA is a ghost town at the Regional level vs. ST-2.

 

No prob; the FS ad is here: https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sa...eb-evo-il.html


You do have a good point about the cage attachment points. I've got a buddy that built a really nice cage for his TTB car and has to take 2pts for the extra attachment points.

Some ideas I've had for w2w:

• A better/bigger/double oil cooler setup.
• Trans cooler.
• Bigger & larger air cooling ducts
• More front weight reduction
• Ballast for better F/R distribution

TTS Nice to haves in addition to above:

• BBK or the Essex AP Racing kit
• New front bumper with larger intercooler opening and flat bottom
• Full front splitter
• Insanely huge brake cooling ducts - NACA
• Yet more weight reduction
• Yet more ballasting
• Some kind of diffuser I suppose
• Better cold air intake

 

I've always been a fan of cold air intake style popularized by Sierra Sierra (modify lights to accommodate fresh air intake)....

 

I was going to do a bigger or doublepass oil cooler as well until I put the fan on, my temps dropped from 270deg WITH a duct, to 240 WITHOUT a duct. And the fan is in front of the cooler if you remember my thread earlier. This saved me a bundle. However I still want to move it to the middle instead of out on the edge like it is, and then i'd change it anyway. Water temp you can solve with a real fan too. I've never taken temps on the 5speed tranny, any data there?

 

That's good info. I could grab some fans and get with my Dad (much better at wiring & grounding) and run some switches and such.

The aftermarket oil coolers that fit in the same location aren't much bigger than the stock unit - so if a pull fan works, that's what I'll do!

I've never taken water temps either. I've only got the stock gauge and the only time I've seen it even move was years back when I had a cracked head gasket. But it helped to warn me there! Cause --> stuck open Forge UNOS MBC btw.

 

Not water, you mentioned tranny?

 

Kinda the same with water; never measured it but thinking a little help would be safer for it. Like if I did a full undertray to block off that area, it'd be smart to just cut in a NACA duct for some airflow to help things out. Couldn't hurt I figure.

 

So what do you think is the ultimate ST2 build?

I've been thinking about this for awhile and wanted to get some opinions going. PTA looks dead (no surprise) and ST2 is easier to 'bench race' setups on since it's straight power/weight depending on your tire choice.

So I worked up the numbers including the adjustment factors and weight adjustment factors for 245 tires and 275 tires. I don't think anyone is going to run > 275 on an Evo as it'd be a bigger hit on allowed HP by about 15-20whp. So check out the below and argue your point!

.lbs - -245 - 275
3301 - 418 - 395
3251 - 406 - 387
3201 - 400 - 381
3151 - 391 - 372
3101 - 382 - 364
3051 - 379 - 361

In the past, I've said it's pretty simple.
1) Low weight, OEM turbo. Think 360whp, 3100lb range.
2) High weight, aftermarket turbo. Think 400whp & 3300lb range.

Now to nitpic...
Personally; like a lot of guys I'm a big proponent of less weight. A car that weighs less not only needs less HP to scoot, but brakes and turns easier and is easier on consumables like tires, brakes, rotors, gas, etc.
Now, how light is the best to go? Well, the lighter you go, the easier it is to make the power and HOLD it on the OEM turbo. And the OEM turbo can make a really good AUC map; including good usable torque, great throttle response, etc. Optimal setup and which tire.... still undecided.

 

I think the Tcase would be even more critical due to the small amount of oil in it. Plus it has some fins for heat transfer on the bottom that a full undertray would cover.

 

I asked the same question to some of the others and they're being vague at best. Which makes sense since they'll be racing against you or I eventually. At the end of the day it really boils down to your competition, track your running on, and budget. I know of a couple that have a tire/suspension/brake/map/weight setup by track and condition. Like the rest of us you'll bench classify till you're blue in the face

One point worth making, the situation is always changing during the race. So in a lightweight setup, corner exit is paramount....but if you don't have the line because 10 other people are there at the same time, and they have the HP on you, your toast. Same goes for corner entry, if they have the HP but have to brake earlier you could get the corner...but is it the line you need if your on the inside...again your corner exit speed is pooched and they drag race you to the next corner. Engineer not the perfect lap, but the lap that's consistent, competitive, and repeatable.

I'd look at your local ST2 comp and see what lap times they're running, then do the math on what it takes to beat that on that track. I'm spending a good bit of tire and fuel figuring that out down here.

So far I've got 3 classification forms and i'm trying to bring it down to two for next year, a wet and a dry.

For your car, i'd get the cage, coolsuit, etc all installed and compliant, it sits at weight x, make power y for the tire you already have your suspension tweaked for, then work on the driving and tweak the car from there. The first few races don't count anyway.


EDIT:
From the data you presented already - For Mid-O, to answer the second question. I'd go for the bottom one on a 275 tire. For say Road America, i'd say second from the top on a 275.

 

There is always the non-dot slick choice also. (Which not alot of folks have really tested much) I kno that there is pretty solid info that they are quite a bit faster then the A6's. Then add in the Curt Brown ceramic wheel bearings and you have the HP loss that it would take to run bigger tires and or not -dots.

 

Curt Brown ceramic wheel bearings? 2100 dollars my god.

 

Add in the $550 per tire for sticker tires and you have an expensive route.