I think the middle two are your best options, on 245s. You're pretty much already there for your weight so you won't have to spend big money dropping weight. What you could spend money on is moving that weight around. And if you ended up going with the Stoptechs you wouldn't have to worry about going through brakes too much even at that weight and power level.

I can outrun people down the straights (at least the ones that aren't cheating) and still stick with them in the turns at 3151 lbs/245mm/390 whp. I imagine it'd be even better in an Evo since they simply turn better than an STI.

How much boost does it take for an Evo 9 on the stock turbo to make ~360? I feel like a stock turbo for racing shouldn't be run much over 21-22 psi or it's going to lose steam pretty quick. Unless you've got a super lightweight Evo, a turbo upgrade seems necessary to run in ST-2.

Why 400 whp and 3300lbs? You've got 3201 lbs right beside 400 whp in your chart.

Very valid points. And I agree, just throw the cage in there and go!

I've always wondering how an AWD turbo car would do with slicks. Has anyone in ST-2 ever tried them in an Evo or STI?

Wheel horsepower is wheel horsepower. No need for any super special parts to drop rotating mass.

I'm sure Nate's got a pile of tires to claim from his domination this year.

 

Its not dropping rotating mass. Its creating less friction on the wheel bearing which equals smoothers running bearings. Altho, reducing rotating mass we already kno makes you faster.

 

How? If you've got two engines making the same power at the crank then sure. But shouldn't two cars with the same wheel horsepower accelerate at the same rate even if one doesn't have some lightweight wheels/tires/rotors?

 

Makes sense to me when your using WHP. Now wouldnt the engine with the heavier wheel combo be working a bit harder? So you could say that the extra stress might become a disadvantage.

Lets talk about going to the 285 tire size also. Jarrod was the only one at National in an EVO on those right? I still wonder if a TTS car is better off with the extra hp loss to run the shorter sidewall with slightly wider tire? Someone give Jarrod a set of 275's to run for testing next year.

 

I hate sounding like a broken record by posting the same responses in different threads, but since this thread is more about this topic ill note it here again. My recommendation to the new guys, and anyone thats looking to race, is to keep things simple and more reliable. IMO, 390whp and 245s is not the best approach. First of all, 390whp is a lot of power for racing. No matter how good your parts are and how good your tuner is, its more likely your engine/turbo/supporting parts will fail or wear out sooner compared to someone whos running less power. Id rather run less power and more tire. Nothing is guaranteed, but from what ive seen its more likely my car will far outlast your car. And sure, i might be spending more money on tires, but id rather do that than have to repair or replace my engine/turbo/supporting parts. I know im new to racing, but in the 3yrs ive been racing ive gotten a decent taste at what its going to take to race somewhat regularly year after year. And i have friends who have quit racing because the effort/time/work has drained them. So from what ive experienced, the simpler and more reliable you keep things, the more money/energy you will have to go race...especially in a class like ST2. And its more likely your car will last longer with less issues. Therefore, you will be spending less money/time working on your car, and racing more.

Ive raced on DOT-slicks (275 sized C51, R6), and non-DOT slicks (250/265 sized R80, R100). No offense but i dont understand how a STi, which is pretty identical to an Evo, is able to "stick with them in the turns" when youre running on 245s. Just doesnt add up for me. Theres a guy here with a Porsche who runs on 305 non-DOT slicks, and theres no way youre going to stick with him in the turns running on 245s. Everyone has their own preference, and imo its partly a result of experience, but it sounds like 245s work for you. Given what ive experienced, coupled with my preference, i wouldnt go that route.

 

So do something different for once Gonna start referring to you as stubborn old man aka Ed

 

Im a really nice guy in person...and not so stubborn. Thats what i keep telling myself.

 

I know buddy, it's all that sand, ya'll think it's Mad Max over there

 

You have to keep in mind an STI makes less power stock for stock than an Evo. The 4g63 is a much more efficient engine than any EJ motor, and can handle that 350-400 realm a lot easier. Comparing my setbacks at 390 whp in ST-2 isn't really fair.

390 is ~20 more whp than what Nate has run this year. I think an FP White would be perfect for that. It could handle making that power at moderate boost AND have better spool than stock. Once he adds the cage he'll need to lose a little weight to really get down to 3151, but won't be too hard. The 245s realllly aren't that much smaller than 275s. Heck, I think the C5 mafia guys were saying the 255s have a wider contact patch than the 275s. I feel the difference between the two tires is just so minimal that the extra 0.4 adjustment for more power is completely worth it.

As for sticking with them guys in the turns, I guess I more mean hang with them enough that they don't completely leave me. I'm only comparing up to Vettes with 315 DOTs, don't think I've ever raced anyone on > 275 slicks. Although there was this one time a Mustang ran 305 Pirelli slicks when his sheet said 275 DOT...

 

I certainly believe that. And I hope I'm not coming off as an *** pushing the less tire more horsepower thing, it's just that I think I'm the only one that's ventured out to try 245s and I think they work. Disregarding my motor issues, I never ever have brake issues on these "smaller" tires, and unless they have more than ~12 heat cycles on them the tires last the whole race too.

I think I'd still be having my same issues even if I was running 350 whp.

 

I dont think youre coming across as an *** at all pushing the less tire more hp thing. I know there is a great deal i can learn from you guys. And i think the more we challenge each other the more we will learn. Although, i post less these days mostly because im busy with other things. But partly also because i feel like my posts come across a little arrogant. When you talk to someone in person, advice/feedback comes across different. If you type it verbatim it tends to sound harsh. And lately i dont put enough time to make my posts sound nice and cozy, so i feel like some readers think im full of myself when i type about this stuff. But they dont realize that my advice is priceless.

Back to the topic...i wouldnt be surprised if someone reading this tries to prove me wrong by showing more power and 245s can work. The thing is, im sure with the right turbo/package you can make it work with more power and 245 DOT-slicks (R6 or A6), i just dont like that approach due to the factors i noted. Ive thought about it, and its not worth it imo. Long story short, too much unnecessary wear and tear on your engine and supporting parts. Beyond that, as a driver you end up relying on all this power. And ive ran on 245 R6/A6 and 275 A6s in TT, so i have a decent amount of experience between the 2 sizes. Ive just never raced on them because imo 245s are too narrow, especially at our weight/speed, on top of that i didnt want to go the more power route. GY has a new DOT-slick thats supposed to compete with the R6/A6. I hear the 275 GY is wider than the 275 Hoosier. That might be worth trying.

As for me, from what i recall i list myself at 3160, my car makes around 340whp, and i run non-DOT slicks (Hoosier 265s). I typically finish a race around 3200, and i think ive been as low as 3180. Although, my approach from day 1 has been to figure out a type of package thats relatively inexpensive yet potent and reliable. And i think ive accomplished that. Because in return thats given me the opportunity to just focus on racing.

Nate, and for anyone else thats new...i understand where you guys are coming from. You want to investigate all sorts of options and youre not sure where to start. I can tell you guys that i like my setup. Its competitive, and its proven to me that its also reliable. If you want an idea of where to start, heres what ill say. Get your weight down as low as you can. On your list the lowest weight youve listed is 3051 while making 361whp with 275s. Try to start lower than that, because remember, you can add up to 250lbs of ballast. Since ive been as low as 3180 without spending any money on real "weight reduction" mods, i think if youre willing to spend the money you can get down to around 2951 without breaking the bank. But also realize, testing different setups will take a good 1-2yrs. And you have to be racing somewhat regularly to make any noteworthy sense out of whatever data you collect. Dont be that guy who tests something out 1 weekend and post your results on the forums. The real testing happens in a race, on different tracks, all year long. So...with 2951 being your lowest weight, you can put together a few different options. Here are 3 id suggest off the top of my head:

1. 2951 with 275 R6/A6 = 347
2. 3151 with 10.5in slick = 344 (add 200lbs of ballast to #1)
3. 3051 with 275 R6/A6 = 361 (add 100lbs of ballast to #1)

This way when you compare the 10.5 non-DOT slick setup with the 275 DOT-slick R6/A6 setup, the power levels will be pretty much identical. And if you guys think like me, or learn to think like me one day you guys will grow to prefer having less weight. Less weight means less wear and tear on everything. On top of that, you wont need to run that much power...which also means less wear and tear on your engine and supporting parts. Personally, id stay away from the power levels of 3, and id work on figuring out something around the range of 1 and 2. This approach imo will benefit you guys significantly more now and in the long run.

 

Without responding to Ed's long post....

I think you have to factor in the tracks you run. MSP608 runs VIR... a lot. It's a HP track; probably moreso than Road America even (I've ran both). You're not going to do well unless you've got power.

To an extent, Mid Ohio is a HP track too. It's got a whole boatload of crazy turns, but it's got 2 pretty long straights. Hell, compared to MO, my top speed at Road America is w/i 3mph!

• 1 time at MO I clear 140mph
• 2 times at VIR I clear 140mph
• 3 times at RA I clear 140mph

Now the other tracks I run on aren't as high speed. Putnam, Autobahn, Gingerman, Blackhawk - I'm barely at 130mph; and it's only on 1 straight. At those tracks I have posted FTD in the TT world more than once; beating all the TTS, TTU and usually uncompetitive TTR cars. Food for thought.

So maybe like Balrok said, different setups for different tracks. And if you do like Bueller suggested with ballast, you could switch up those setups.
I did as much setup/config this year as I could in a single season. I tested more aero and less HP and different tracks had different outcomes depending on the time of the year as it was in the 40's in April here and the 90's in July.

 

Right, I had a dyno for about 370whp this year, but I think I ran my boost lower than that. The car ran great, but it ran hot in oil temps - seems it always runs hot oil temps! The longest I ran it in the summer was 7 hot laps at Mid Ohio - which is about a 15 minutes session so shorter than the 'sprint races'. Power did not change any and my laptimes were pretty much identical even working through the slow TTE Miata traffic and 2-wide in corners; etc.

That being said, I'm not sure the stock turbo is ideal for holding power past 6500rpms. Add to that 95 degree summers and 10-15 lap races and it compounds that. I'm looking at my dyno sheet right now, and after 7k I'm only holding 20psi. I'm on stock cams, WG and stock (crushed) BOV which might be part of it. Also past 7k the power starts to dive. It's a great tune from AMS; don't get me wrong; but that turbo can only do so much.

Which brings in the possibilities of an FP White or a BBK Lite.
I know Hamflex ran the FP White this year in ST2 with very low weight. He liked it; good torque too. I've never seen his sheet to see his 'AUC' though.

 

Bueller we need to talk in person or over the phone sometime. I've been thinking about running in NASA, but have no clue what class I would be in. I can post up my mods if anyone else wants to help me figure this out as well.

 

I'll PM ya...