project:BDR 2006 Evo STU build thread
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From: Seattle
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From: CT
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From: CT
I'm not convinced more would help.
I definitely would sign up for all the Pros in the area because they're more fun than normal autox imo. I expect we'd still run into the same issues of the events hitting capacity quickly.
I don't have a solution that doesn't involve getting fewer runs or adding a day.
Toledo last year would have been an interesting study in how a 3 day event with 350 people could have worked if they had properly anticipated demand and not screwed everyone by changing the schedule a few weeks before the event.
-Bryan
I definitely would sign up for all the Pros in the area because they're more fun than normal autox imo. I expect we'd still run into the same issues of the events hitting capacity quickly.
I don't have a solution that doesn't involve getting fewer runs or adding a day.
Toledo last year would have been an interesting study in how a 3 day event with 350 people could have worked if they had properly anticipated demand and not screwed everyone by changing the schedule a few weeks before the event.
-Bryan
They better not mess with Toledo again this year. Even with the NJ Pro and DC Pro close to home, we're planning to hit Toledo for that magical concrete stuff. I thought I had a great handling car last year, 'till we hit concrete there and at Lincoln.
Hey Butt Dyno,
I read this entire thread as I am also interested in getting into auto x this year, it was full of so much info. You actually know a couple friends of mine David and Martin? They both drive identical looking grey sti's except Martin competes in SM now. Well they both do lol. Anyways I hope we get a chance to meet this year and talk a some, I would love to pick your brain.
Drew. R
I read this entire thread as I am also interested in getting into auto x this year, it was full of so much info. You actually know a couple friends of mine David and Martin? They both drive identical looking grey sti's except Martin competes in SM now. Well they both do lol. Anyways I hope we get a chance to meet this year and talk a some, I would love to pick your brain.
Drew. R
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2002
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From: Why do they always call the Evo the Dark Side?
Hey Butt Dyno,
I read this entire thread as I am also interested in getting into auto x this year, it was full of so much info. You actually know a couple friends of mine David and Martin? They both drive identical looking grey sti's except Martin competes in SM now. Well they both do lol. Anyways I hope we get a chance to meet this year and talk a some, I would love to pick your brain.
Drew. R
I read this entire thread as I am also interested in getting into auto x this year, it was full of so much info. You actually know a couple friends of mine David and Martin? They both drive identical looking grey sti's except Martin competes in SM now. Well they both do lol. Anyways I hope we get a chance to meet this year and talk a some, I would love to pick your brain.
Drew. R
PM inbound...
Look forward to talking to you.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,733
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From: Why do they always call the Evo the Dark Side?
Midseason hiatus #1
Between getting ready for our first child and Fedex scheduling there wasn’t much in the way of local autocross events in May. There was a Fedex test and tune day June 2nd that was my best bet, but I ended up having to bail on that, too. So ultimately I was going to end up doing back to back national events, Dover to DC.
In between, Fast 6 was released. My friends and I have an unhealthy appreciation for the series. I originally bought an official Fast and Furious body vinyl kit off eBay for $15 back in 2011 to put on the Evo for Fast 5 (thinking that it was going to be the last movie in the series ). But when the movie came out, my car didn’t have a transmission, so the vinyl went on the shelf... until Fast 6.
In keeping with the theme, I did a generally half-assed job. Lots of bubbles. Not to mention the vinyl was several years old at this point. I did try to keep it symmetric between the two sides at least.
End result?
Fast 6 was a bit disappointing, but at least there’s one more.
I decided to leave the vinyl on for the Pro, purely for my amusement and the “WTF” look on the face of people who don’t know me. And I got a lot of that. People staring at me like I shouldn't be there. Autocrossers are so judgey
Event #?? DC ProSolo
I really had two goals for this event:
1) Josh won the NJ Pro and the Lincoln Spring Nats Pro by 2.5 seconds... each. I definitely wanted to stay under that
2) Don’t explode any drivetrain bits. The clutch had 5 drivers’ worth of Pro on it (2x DC 2012, 2x Toledo 2012, 1x Finale 2012) and from the sounds of it I was entering the Evo clutch Danger Zone.
I didn’t get to the site on Friday in time for practice starts, but did get there with enough time to register and tech. Since STU ran in group A I didn’t want to deal with that stuff in the morning. After Dover, I was going to make sure I got a ton of coursewalks on each course.
… in the rain, the horrible horrible annoying misty rain.
The courses walked very tight, like painfully tight, especially compared to last year’s courses. But, you never know until the tree drops.
Between getting ready for our first child and Fedex scheduling there wasn’t much in the way of local autocross events in May. There was a Fedex test and tune day June 2nd that was my best bet, but I ended up having to bail on that, too. So ultimately I was going to end up doing back to back national events, Dover to DC.
In between, Fast 6 was released. My friends and I have an unhealthy appreciation for the series. I originally bought an official Fast and Furious body vinyl kit off eBay for $15 back in 2011 to put on the Evo for Fast 5 (thinking that it was going to be the last movie in the series
). But when the movie came out, my car didn’t have a transmission, so the vinyl went on the shelf... until Fast 6.In keeping with the theme, I did a generally half-assed job. Lots of bubbles. Not to mention the vinyl was several years old at this point. I did try to keep it symmetric between the two sides at least.
End result?
Fast 6 was a bit disappointing, but at least there’s one more.
I decided to leave the vinyl on for the Pro, purely for my amusement and the “WTF” look on the face of people who don’t know me. And I got a lot of that. People staring at me like I shouldn't be there. Autocrossers are so judgey
Event #?? DC ProSolo
I really had two goals for this event:
1) Josh won the NJ Pro and the Lincoln Spring Nats Pro by 2.5 seconds... each. I definitely wanted to stay under that
2) Don’t explode any drivetrain bits. The clutch had 5 drivers’ worth of Pro on it (2x DC 2012, 2x Toledo 2012, 1x Finale 2012) and from the sounds of it I was entering the Evo clutch Danger Zone.
I didn’t get to the site on Friday in time for practice starts, but did get there with enough time to register and tech. Since STU ran in group A I didn’t want to deal with that stuff in the morning. After Dover, I was going to make sure I got a ton of coursewalks on each course.
… in the rain, the horrible horrible annoying misty rain.
The courses walked very tight, like painfully tight, especially compared to last year’s courses. But, you never know until the tree drops.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,733
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From: Why do they always call the Evo the Dark Side?
Saturday AM
After getting some more walks in (total of 6 per side) it was time to air up the tires and grid. Because it had rained the morning before, the course was still a bit damp, and it was still a bit brisk, I ran less tire pressure than usual (36 all around) and set the shocks almost full soft. The fuel light had come on the previous night, depending on whether my car as pointed up or down the hill. I had done a Fedex event back in 2011 with the light on and it was fine.
Since the weather was only a little ominous and not It’s Gonna Rain, I wasn’t too worried about this session, just trying to get a feel for things.
First run (right) - 35.2 - not pretty, but clean at least. Turns out the course is tight, but not quiite as tight as it walks.
First run (left) - 34.856. Felt okay, I was focused on being tidy, but didn’t feel like I was taking full advantage of the available grip.
Second run (right) - 38.5+5 - I didn’t brake enough at the end of the slalom and wiped out a wall. I coasted after that to avoid overheating the tires.
Second run (left) - 35.717. Overshot a couple of braking zones big time. Also had some fuel starve going up the hill.
Because Josh had coned both his right course runs, I was in first after heat 1, but knew I had a lot of work to do on the right course. I was 3 tenths faster on the left, but 1.3 seconds slower in raw time on the right (my 35.2 to Josh’s 33.9+1).
Oh, and I had to get some gas...
RT / 60 foots:
.837 / 1.744 L
.654 / 1.806 R
.686 / 1.737 L (I think this is my best so far)
.639 / 1.824 R
Saturday PM
Alright... drop some time on the right, shave some time on the left, see where it all lands... go!
Since the sun was out and the course was now dry, I went to middle stiff all around on the shocks (my normal Fedex setup) and 38 psi all around on the tires.
3rd run (left): 35.183 - no help.
3rd run (right): 34.045. 1.2 second improvement, woot.
4th run (left) - 35.124 +1. Hit an inside cone going up the hill, otherwise not much worth saving here.
4th run (right): Another 34.0, but a DNF. I think I heard over the radio that I had rolled back at the start. I guess I left off the handbrake too early, but at least I didn’t throw away any time.
RT / 60 foots:
.738 / 1.863
.796 / 1.788
.624 / 1.956
DNF
The 60 foot times on the left were consistently longer than the ones on the right - not sure which one of them was closer to normal, but the left course was angled a bit.
Watching the video, I was not hitting my marks on the right - just making stupid mistakes like cranking the wheel more when the car was already at max grip. The left was okay, and I still had the fast left time, though I wasn’t counting on keeping that through Sunday. The mistakes were just more subtle.
I was happy with how the car felt overall. It was pushy in the really tight stuff, which there was a lot of. I thought about stiffening the rear bar for Sunday to help in the tight sweepers but was concerned that I might be giving up time in the fast uphill offsets, and/or might make the car too easy to spin. So I spent the time watching video instead.
Sunday
After talking with Greg (DSP) about my video, he noticed my biggest mistake on the right course - I was getting suckered in and driving at the first inside cone instead of staying left to get behind it.
I pretty much do this every year. Bad habit! Thankfully I was starting on the right so I could apply this knowledge quickly.
Same setup as Saturday PM - middle on the shocks, 38 psi all around.
Right (5th run) - car squirrelly immediately. I had to force it because I didn’t quite get the right position. After the uphill, the run was pretty solid though. 34.5. I almost phoned it in after the squirrelly bits, for tire temps, but decided to keep going to get the practice in.
Left (5th run) - 35.4+1. (details)
Right (6th run) - this was it. If I could make up decent ground here I might have a shot at Josh on my last run. Run up the hill was GREAT, deep on the gas and ahead where I needed. Turnaround, slalom, good, solid positioning. Then I turn in for the slowest corner on the course... UGH, CONE. Finish strong, run a 33.6, but the cone wipes it out.
Left (6th run) - trying to take a couple tenths off so I have a shot at the challenge. No joy, a cone and a little bit slower.
Josh ended up coning away a 34.793+1 on the left, and I think red-lit a 33.278 on the right (.453 RT). So neither of us improved and I ended up staying .619 behind in 2nd.
RT / 60s:
.596 / ??
.615 / 1.896
.630 / ??
.620 / 1.934
For some reason the 60-foots on the right side were busted. But that’s a set of Sunday RT’s I’m very happy with, definitely my best set of 4 ever, let alone for a Sunday.
They held everyone within 1s for the Challenge.
And... .506 made it.. I needed another tenth to get in. That 33.6 would have gotten me in easily. Doh!
That said, I definitely achieved both goals I set:
* The clutch didn’t die. It felt a little spongy on Saturday afternoon but held up with no drama and the car launched great all weekend.
* I was within 2.5 seconds of Josh The clean difference was .619. I coned away .395, and Josh coned+redlit away .211, so raw-for-raw the difference was .435. Coning away .395 hurts a little, but I would rather that than not have any idea where the time was.
Overall I'm really happy with how the season has gone especially with a 5 week layoff between events. I can't ask anything more from the car. I need to focus on consistency. It does suck that BFG didn't get the 245-40-17 Rival out in time. If so, I might have 2 free ones right now
If there's an overall plan right now, taking into account my reduced schedule this year, it's something like this:
* Run the car for the rest of 2013 pretty much as is.
* Next year, make the suspension tweaks I think I'm going to make - a little more front spring, hollow bars. Basically a setup that will deal with concrete better. Set the car up on Z2's as a baseline and then see if the Rivals are faster.
* Hope to go to Nats 2015ish
The car is great on asphalt and just needs minor stuff - lighter exhaust, lighter bars, 2-piece rear rotors, maybe a lighter battery, etc. I don't want to screw with it too much, just want to make it more concrete-able.
Datas
Right side: comparing run 3 (34.0) to run 6 (33.6+1)
Note that the MaxQ has been a little wonky lately. I think part of it is due to its location on the trunklid instead of the roof - stupid aluminum roof. I really need to try out SoloStorm - anyone done that yet?
Note that for this run, I picked up .15 in raw time just via reaction time: 796 vs 630. So the “real” difference in raw time is only about .25 between the two runs.
Start: I thought staying left and getting ahead of that first gate would help, but the data shows it as basically a wash.
First big right hander: a little less distance on run 6. Run 6 didn’t get pointed in the right direction as fast as run 3 though.
Slalom: due to positioning, run 3 is a little faster. Peak at the end of the slalom is 56 mph for 3rd run, 55 for 6th run. At this point, run 3 is in the lead.
Hairpin #1: run 6 has MUCH better positioning, and can actually get on the gas a little before the 2nd hairpin. Big difference - run 6 peaks at 45 mph, run 3 only at 38 mph.
Hairpin #2: run 6 is much more patient here (though not patient enough to avoid the inside cone ( ) and can get on the gas a lot earlier. This is the biggest spot where run 6 is faster - run 3 picks up 3 tenths here.
Hairpin #3: OK, this isn’t really a hairpin. Run 6 stays tidy here, thanks to the good line out of hairpin #2, and carries a lot more speed through the finish (46 mph vs 34 mph). Through this section, run 6 picks up another tenth.
So, even comparing two runs that were different by .25, there is still some noticeable inconsistency between my Saturday afternoon and my Sunday morning. Fixing the entry into the first big sweeper (bottom right of MaxQ map) would have dropped me a tenth or two for sure, since I could line up the slalom better.
Last shot with the vinyl...
… and the Fast and Furious vinyl is now off the car. I am getting the bumper painted at some point this year, hopefully during all the downtime I will soon have
After getting some more walks in (total of 6 per side) it was time to air up the tires and grid. Because it had rained the morning before, the course was still a bit damp, and it was still a bit brisk, I ran less tire pressure than usual (36 all around) and set the shocks almost full soft. The fuel light had come on the previous night, depending on whether my car as pointed up or down the hill. I had done a Fedex event back in 2011 with the light on and it was fine.
Since the weather was only a little ominous and not It’s Gonna Rain, I wasn’t too worried about this session, just trying to get a feel for things.
First run (right) - 35.2 - not pretty, but clean at least. Turns out the course is tight, but not quiite as tight as it walks.
First run (left) - 34.856. Felt okay, I was focused on being tidy, but didn’t feel like I was taking full advantage of the available grip.
Second run (right) - 38.5+5 - I didn’t brake enough at the end of the slalom and wiped out a wall. I coasted after that to avoid overheating the tires.
Second run (left) - 35.717. Overshot a couple of braking zones big time. Also had some fuel starve going up the hill.
Because Josh had coned both his right course runs, I was in first after heat 1, but knew I had a lot of work to do on the right course. I was 3 tenths faster on the left, but 1.3 seconds slower in raw time on the right (my 35.2 to Josh’s 33.9+1).
Oh, and I had to get some gas...
RT / 60 foots:
.837 / 1.744 L
.654 / 1.806 R
.686 / 1.737 L (I think this is my best so far)
.639 / 1.824 R
Saturday PM
Alright... drop some time on the right, shave some time on the left, see where it all lands... go!
Since the sun was out and the course was now dry, I went to middle stiff all around on the shocks (my normal Fedex setup) and 38 psi all around on the tires.
3rd run (left): 35.183 - no help.
3rd run (right): 34.045. 1.2 second improvement, woot.
4th run (left) - 35.124 +1. Hit an inside cone going up the hill, otherwise not much worth saving here.
4th run (right): Another 34.0, but a DNF. I think I heard over the radio that I had rolled back at the start. I guess I left off the handbrake too early, but at least I didn’t throw away any time.
RT / 60 foots:
.738 / 1.863
.796 / 1.788
.624 / 1.956
DNF
The 60 foot times on the left were consistently longer than the ones on the right - not sure which one of them was closer to normal, but the left course was angled a bit.
Watching the video, I was not hitting my marks on the right - just making stupid mistakes like cranking the wheel more when the car was already at max grip. The left was okay, and I still had the fast left time, though I wasn’t counting on keeping that through Sunday. The mistakes were just more subtle.
I was happy with how the car felt overall. It was pushy in the really tight stuff, which there was a lot of. I thought about stiffening the rear bar for Sunday to help in the tight sweepers but was concerned that I might be giving up time in the fast uphill offsets, and/or might make the car too easy to spin. So I spent the time watching video instead.
Sunday
After talking with Greg (DSP) about my video, he noticed my biggest mistake on the right course - I was getting suckered in and driving at the first inside cone instead of staying left to get behind it.
I pretty much do this every year. Bad habit! Thankfully I was starting on the right so I could apply this knowledge quickly.
Same setup as Saturday PM - middle on the shocks, 38 psi all around.
Right (5th run) - car squirrelly immediately. I had to force it because I didn’t quite get the right position. After the uphill, the run was pretty solid though. 34.5. I almost phoned it in after the squirrelly bits, for tire temps, but decided to keep going to get the practice in.
Left (5th run) - 35.4+1. (details)
Right (6th run) - this was it. If I could make up decent ground here I might have a shot at Josh on my last run. Run up the hill was GREAT, deep on the gas and ahead where I needed. Turnaround, slalom, good, solid positioning. Then I turn in for the slowest corner on the course... UGH, CONE. Finish strong, run a 33.6, but the cone wipes it out.
Left (6th run) - trying to take a couple tenths off so I have a shot at the challenge. No joy, a cone and a little bit slower.
Josh ended up coning away a 34.793+1 on the left, and I think red-lit a 33.278 on the right (.453 RT). So neither of us improved and I ended up staying .619 behind in 2nd.
RT / 60s:
.596 / ??
.615 / 1.896
.630 / ??
.620 / 1.934
For some reason the 60-foots on the right side were busted. But that’s a set of Sunday RT’s I’m very happy with, definitely my best set of 4 ever, let alone for a Sunday.
They held everyone within 1s for the Challenge.
And... .506 made it.. I needed another tenth to get in. That 33.6 would have gotten me in easily. Doh!
That said, I definitely achieved both goals I set:
* The clutch didn’t die. It felt a little spongy on Saturday afternoon but held up with no drama and the car launched great all weekend.
* I was within 2.5 seconds of Josh
The clean difference was .619. I coned away .395, and Josh coned+redlit away .211, so raw-for-raw the difference was .435. Coning away .395 hurts a little, but I would rather that than not have any idea where the time was.Overall I'm really happy with how the season has gone especially with a 5 week layoff between events. I can't ask anything more from the car. I need to focus on consistency. It does suck that BFG didn't get the 245-40-17 Rival out in time. If so, I might have 2 free ones right now
If there's an overall plan right now, taking into account my reduced schedule this year, it's something like this:
* Run the car for the rest of 2013 pretty much as is.
* Next year, make the suspension tweaks I think I'm going to make - a little more front spring, hollow bars. Basically a setup that will deal with concrete better. Set the car up on Z2's as a baseline and then see if the Rivals are faster.
* Hope to go to Nats 2015ish
The car is great on asphalt and just needs minor stuff - lighter exhaust, lighter bars, 2-piece rear rotors, maybe a lighter battery, etc. I don't want to screw with it too much, just want to make it more concrete-able.
Datas
Right side: comparing run 3 (34.0) to run 6 (33.6+1)
Note that the MaxQ has been a little wonky lately. I think part of it is due to its location on the trunklid instead of the roof - stupid aluminum roof. I really need to try out SoloStorm - anyone done that yet?
Note that for this run, I picked up .15 in raw time just via reaction time: 796 vs 630. So the “real” difference in raw time is only about .25 between the two runs.
Start: I thought staying left and getting ahead of that first gate would help, but the data shows it as basically a wash.
First big right hander: a little less distance on run 6. Run 6 didn’t get pointed in the right direction as fast as run 3 though.
Slalom: due to positioning, run 3 is a little faster. Peak at the end of the slalom is 56 mph for 3rd run, 55 for 6th run. At this point, run 3 is in the lead.
Hairpin #1: run 6 has MUCH better positioning, and can actually get on the gas a little before the 2nd hairpin. Big difference - run 6 peaks at 45 mph, run 3 only at 38 mph.
Hairpin #2: run 6 is much more patient here (though not patient enough to avoid the inside cone (
) and can get on the gas a lot earlier. This is the biggest spot where run 6 is faster - run 3 picks up 3 tenths here. Hairpin #3: OK, this isn’t really a hairpin. Run 6 stays tidy here, thanks to the good line out of hairpin #2, and carries a lot more speed through the finish (46 mph vs 34 mph). Through this section, run 6 picks up another tenth.
So, even comparing two runs that were different by .25, there is still some noticeable inconsistency between my Saturday afternoon and my Sunday morning. Fixing the entry into the first big sweeper (bottom right of MaxQ map) would have dropped me a tenth or two for sure, since I could line up the slalom better.
Last shot with the vinyl...
… and the Fast and Furious vinyl is now off the car. I am getting the bumper painted at some point this year, hopefully during all the downtime I will soon have
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,733
Likes: 154
From: Why do they always call the Evo the Dark Side?
Other notes
* I don't know how my first Saturday morning run on the left ended up being the fast time for the class. It's a very strange datapoint. Probably some parts temperature and some parts driving carefully trying to be tidy on a course that demanded that.
* Here are my high/low speeds on my fastest runs. Like I said, the course got tight in spots.
* Many people have noticed that in grid, the grid people will say "two minutes" and it will be 10. Or "Ten minutes, I mean 5 minutes" followed by "GO GO GO" 2 minutes later. So two minutes isn't really two minutes, it's two non-deterministic ProSolo time units. I found the hand symbol for these strange increments of time. I think this explains all the confusion over the years.
* I don't know how my first Saturday morning run on the left ended up being the fast time for the class. It's a very strange datapoint. Probably some parts temperature and some parts driving carefully trying to be tidy on a course that demanded that.
* Here are my high/low speeds on my fastest runs. Like I said, the course got tight in spots.
* Many people have noticed that in grid, the grid people will say "two minutes" and it will be 10. Or "Ten minutes, I mean 5 minutes" followed by "GO GO GO" 2 minutes later. So two minutes isn't really two minutes, it's two non-deterministic ProSolo time units. I found the hand symbol for these strange increments of time. I think this explains all the confusion over the years.
Evolving Member
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
From: Maryland
Excellent driving at the Pro John. You seem to have come a long way this year between Dover and the Pro. Looking forward to at least a couple more events this year before the kid gets overnighted from Storkland.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,733
Likes: 154
From: Why do they always call the Evo the Dark Side?
I'd probably get CBRD to fabricate one, similar to the one posted earlier in the thread - i.e. v-banded and configurable.
There isn't a lot off the shelf - STM sells an aluminum one for $825 that's 9 lbs that looks decent but I'd like to keep my options open in terms of reconfiguration. Most of the OTS titanium ones are super-JDM angled fart can things with blue tips apparently.
There isn't a lot off the shelf - STM sells an aluminum one for $825 that's 9 lbs that looks decent but I'd like to keep my options open in terms of reconfiguration. Most of the OTS titanium ones are super-JDM angled fart can things with blue tips apparently.