I just went from DTC60's to 70's in the rear to test. I felt like the 70's were better but I'm also running a bigger front brake setup than stock.

If you want some 60's to try before you buy, let me know I can send them to you.

 

For me, when I was running the same compound all around the rear end would wobble under hard braking. I stepped it down a compound in the rear and the issue went away. This was with OEM bushings all around.

 

^ thanks, i have a fresh set of 60's rear to use. i've been running 60's in the front for awhile now also.

i got RB two piece front rotors i'm going to put on when the car is done. and will try their new XT970 pad in front also. drove my friends evo with them on and i was impressed.

 

same with me. i think it's because the rear abs comes on and cause the rear to pull left and right as each side lock and release independently. that's just my guess.

 

I've been told that the rear pads don't heat up enough (if you're a slow driver like me lol) to get them and keep them in the optimum temperature range.

My notes here:

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...o-viii-ix.html

 

Dang, I guess chu don't know what chu don't know.

Good real world example honda-guy.

 

I actually run more aggressive pads in the rear of my car (with the AP kit in the front) than I do in the front. The OEM bias is waaay to front weighted. With the aggressive rear pads I get much less nose dive and a much more balanced car braking hard. How did I get here?

Back in my HPDE days I ran the old Carbo XP12 F and XP10 R setup so many recommended. Went through DE 1-2-3 over probably 20 weekends, still on the original set of rear XP10's. Meanwhile I was starting to toast XP12's in the front almost every weekend. Rears had maybe 50% wear. Conclusion, the rear end of the car wasn't doing squat as far as braking goes. Bought some XP12 rears to go with the XP12 fronts running on NT01's in DE3. OMG! The light went on. So much better and more composed under heavy braking (like coming into T10A at Road Atl).

Guess what, I started actually seeing wear on the rears as well. But still on the same set of Dba 4000 rear rotors I bought 4.5 years ago for my first DE1 event. It would be hard to figure how many front rotors and pads I have been through in the same time.

 

That's really interesting.

I'm wondering if the rear end wobble I was experiencing was being induced by something else. Old rotors, perhaps? The only things that changed between events in my car were the pads and new rotors.

 

It is quite possible to alter the forward tilt of the car during braking by changing which end of the car is doing a majority of the work. We have exactly the kind of car for which this happens.

Our front suspension has little to no anti-dive geometry (being struts with a "flat" lower LCA). Our rear suspension has quite a bit of anti-lift geometry (being multi-link with a relatively steep trailing arm). Because of these, the rear puts up a bit of fight against forward tilt during braking, while the front doesn't really help at all. Therefore, for a given total braking, the more of the work done by the rear, the less the car tilts.

Now, in order for this to explain your experience, we'd have to assume that you were misreading reduced tail-rise as reduced nose-dive, which maybe isn't warranted....

 

i run a PSRS with the middle spacer.. thoughts on the effect this has on this whole braking situation?

 

If you put a spacer above the rear inboard pivot of the front lower LCA, such that the arm angles down from front to rear, then you added pro-dive to the nose. (I thought that only rally folks did this.)

 

It's reversed for the CZ4A:



I think you want it like this for anti-lift on the CT9A:

 

Guys, this is a great conversation with excellent info. Thank you for all the input. I am not sure we have a consensus on the tail waggle phenomenon. I'm certain I don't know the cause nor how to fix it, but I also know the amount of tail waggle I was feeling was very difficult to handle. I felt as if the rear end could come around in a flash if I made any steering input at all before it settled. This made it very difficult to plan and hit the apex...or to do it at the braking point I wanted to hit.

For reference, I was using the Essex/AP front brake kit with DS 1-11 pads in front. In the rear, I had some regular rotors (stock, I think) with stock Brembos and Hawk HT-10s. I only used the Hawks, because I had gotten them before the AP kit. I am not sure if that helps with the theory of more bite/pad in the rear leading to greater tail waggle.

 

do you know what your alignment settings were?

at the time i was having the wiggle, i added 0.1 degrees per side of rear toe in to play it safe. it slightly changed the feeling, but it was still there. even after adding the front bushings, i kept the slight rear toe in...i dont trust zero rear toe.

 

Camber: -3.0f / -1.5r
Toe: 1/16th toe-out front / 0 toe rear

For reference, this was how Paul Gerrard designed the Vishnu Ohlin system that I have, so the settings are very specific to my combination of suspension and wheel/tire combo.