Here's the article... one of my bookmarks actually haha.

http://www.mitsubishi-motors.com/cor...004/16E_03.pdf

 

You just answered your own question:

so :

and we just scratching a surface , before even getting there : is that wing design, will flow as you desired at low speed and where is the point where the flow will stall, with this body shape and hight etc?
That is why i wont go there. I do not think he want to know that much , but if he wants he can look up this:
it probably will give a general idea how it is works really , before we start going deeper
http://www.av8n.com/how/htm/airfoils.html
visual demonstration of stall.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UlsArvbTeo

i was just thinking about this airfoil etc , in general about aerodynamics etc.

And something cross my mind, and i thought it is really funny Maybe just for me but here it is.

So let say the auto cross of our conversation max speed around 60 mph, which is probably leads around 30-40mph average on the course. Theoretically speaking of course.
You throw all other idea out , and you try to make your run faster with a wing solution- spend money on it time research etc. , which will work for sure, and in theory 100% if you set it up right based on your planning etc.
Let say you are focusing for 30-60 mph wind speed high effectiveness.
Then in the morning the wind change and picked up...VERY possible situation and life like.
Now imagine, the auto X lay out is, just for argument sake goes 60% of the track in tail wind and 20 % head wind. I know you already know where i am going with this .. LOL
So anyway.... , let say the wind is variable between 20-30 mph... no what ? LOL

That is one of the reason why i do say for low speed races, the wing is negligible compare to the higher speed races. The reason why doesn't really do soo much in drag , because it will drain hp out of the car to create down force which is in the Evo case not really important as far as i see in drag race. But i am not a drag racer .

I actually do know there LOT more to prove for low speed before you actually need to think about wing.

Now i just to try to help the original poster to rethink the expensive wing idea (cheap usually wont worth a penny, and its nothing more then a show item) and throw that money some where else in the car as i mentioned before.
The EVos with wings are usually set up for high speed stability, because they are actually handy capped compere to the vettes ,Porsche's etc. because of the body shape. I am sure that doesn't need explanations here.

He takes it or leave it , that is his decision.

Rob

here is something similar here too:

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...peed-wing.html
more about down force:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...odynamics.html

 

Just to clarify... My car is set up for SM. Works great and is competitve. Yes i have the engine, drivetrain, suspension and tires. Aero is the last thing in my modifications.

My reasoning of asking is to determine the benefits people see experience with both. I see a good mix of both wingless and winged evos out there.

I am a mechanical engineer and work for NASA as well as have a pilots license. I understand how airfoils work and know the "HOW". I am more interested in why people run a wing or no wing. What benefits they see from running either wing or no wing and why they chose it for their set up.

 

so then you perfectly understand my point about the wing at low speed.
If there is nothing left , is no question to get a wing.
It might help, might not at certain situations , but always look cool and "official"...

from the signature is hard to pick who you are ...

I did run with and without wing around medium speed. Once i did used a high profile wing. at higher speed is noticeable the high wing , but at low speed i do not notice anything.
In my experience at low speed there is no difference you have or not a wing.(usually i do have a stock type or close wing, the high big wing is very noticeable at high speed at makes the car extremely stable)

Of course, i never did US autoX competitive. For me is way to "slow" and similar what ever is the track lay out. I have been only 3 times.


cheers Rob

 

Thanks for your input Rob. I actually was at one of the AutoX events you raced at at the Meadowlands this season. I was the only other Evo there that day.

 

I run the stock wing on our car. We were the only BSP evo at nats with a wing. It's 7lbs and I'll take the weight penalty because I think the car looks horrible without it. SP allows some spoiler modification but I haven't decided it's worth it. I do know many other more developed SP and SM cars run wings with good benefit.

 

oh nice! which one the gray IX?
There was another X white if i am right.
that was basically the only time when i could test my newly build car and the new ACD ecu, before our race.

i couldnt even find my way out of those cone's LOL

 

Lol yeah i was the gray IX. I knew you were there for a shake down. You had the antilag set up and was using the ebrake on some of the turns.

 

Actually the autox for rally guys are a good practice and car check.
Although we usually don't run good times, because our set up and lack of experience on it.
I do prefer autox as a car check up, it is cheap and legal.
Only thing is, i never find my way between the cones. Forget about the exit ...

You did run there very quick

Same time we did do the done the job why we got there, and did a good recheck on the car, did a base set up too. After the 2nd run I actually did bed a brake pads in... LOL

I hope we meet next time. Do not hesitate to come over if you see me

 

How about the addition of the OEM wicker / gurney flap on the tall OEM wing?

 

i am sure they all have scientific and measurable effect on the wing performance at certain speed range.
But you will notice it? i highly doubt.


The best way to solve these questions to get one guy with a de attachable BIG wing and get 10 independent guy drive the car 3 times with wing and 3 times without wing on the autoX course.
But a way they do not know they have or not have a wing. blocked view :0 Then you can tell it makes a noticeable difference or not.
Then after, ask them do they felt any difference between runs and if they did, what and when.

how much you want to bet, i already know the answer ? LOL

 

Will do Rob. Thanks for the compliment

 

it wasn't hard to find you on the track, you were way quicker then any of the cars i saw there. I think one vette was something close .
We all agreed on this

 

Thanks! Im doing it all on street tires too. Next year i will be on hoosiers. I wanted to spend the year with a challenge and better my driving skills.

 

you liar , you said you have everything... LOL

Those Hoosier's will you make much faster, then any Boing or fighter wing you would put it on ...
the tire choice is much more challenging and important then most people think. The next half year i bet you will play with alignments - pressures, etc. and adjusting driving style for those changes and so on so forth.
You are clearly a good driver , so i suggest drop the wing idea and focus on the tire - brake - suspension set up - combo now.
The tire change is effect in all those at a same time. And if you get it right , the whole car experience can and will jump a major way.

good luck with a new experiment, it is soo exiting to find a "right" set up