How NOT to Run an Autocross Event!!
the only problems I see in this video are
1) A bad site
2) a bad course design
3) a course worker sitting while cars are moving on course. I can't comment on the others, they may have been picking up cones from other cars. I also didn't see any flags (stationary or waving) at any worker stations...
4) a bad driver in a hot car.
1) A bad site
2) a bad course design
3) a course worker sitting while cars are moving on course. I can't comment on the others, they may have been picking up cones from other cars. I also didn't see any flags (stationary or waving) at any worker stations...
4) a bad driver in a hot car.
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 61
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From: United States
Racing (in my mind at least) is when you have cars fighting every inch of the way for 15-th position and trading paint out on the track. Solo time trials are supposed to be safe. I wouldn't want to see any car end up in an accident because of a spin. Spins could happen to everyone on any run or otherwise you are not pushing hard enough at the autocross (except for me, of course -- I nevah-evah spin 
!). Common sense says the drivers bear responsibility for agreeing to participate in the event. In reality, the waiver is signed in the morning before you see the course and with our legal system, someone like the 'Vette owner that crashed could probably go after the organizers in spite of the waiver and wreak a lot of havoc...
!). Common sense says the drivers bear responsibility for agreeing to participate in the event. In reality, the waiver is signed in the morning before you see the course and with our legal system, someone like the 'Vette owner that crashed could probably go after the organizers in spite of the waiver and wreak a lot of havoc...
every other car that day made it thru the course without crashing into the curb. I think the issue here was the hot footed driver, but its always easy to monday morning QB...
Racing (in my mind at least) is when you have cars fighting every inch of the way for 15-th position and trading paint out on the track. Solo time trials are supposed to be safe. I wouldn't want to see any car end up in an accident because of a spin. Spins could happen to everyone on any run or otherwise you are not pushing hard enough at the autocross (except for me, of course -- I nevah-evah spin !). Common sense says the drivers bear responsibility for agreeing to participate in the event. In reality, the waiver is signed in the morning before you see the course and with our legal system, someone like the 'Vette owner that crashed could probably go after the organizers in spite of the waiver and wreak a lot of havoc...
!). Common sense says the drivers bear responsibility for agreeing to participate in the event. In reality, the waiver is signed in the morning before you see the course and with our legal system, someone like the 'Vette owner that crashed could probably go after the organizers in spite of the waiver and wreak a lot of havoc...Besides the other comment which is point out, in your mind is only racing if cars fight each other for position door to door.
So drag- ta- rally - etc are not racing?
Beside he had at least 30 ft to stop or navigate from the corner before he crashed... That is super safe , specially if think about the avarage mph the run on these event / run... LOL
Sorry I have to completely disagree. Its a driver fault no one else.
This appears to be the autocross at Autoclub Speedway in Fontana CA.
Here's a first-person view of the course so you can see the distances involved from the driver's perspective:
(Not me driving, fyi)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k85lrjnVjxM
Here's a first-person view of the course so you can see the distances involved from the driver's perspective:
(Not me driving, fyi)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k85lrjnVjxM
Same thing happened to me. I setup very well for a corner and got into a part of the track that hadn't been cleared. Got a tire full of small rocks and blew wide by about 10 feet. I had enough room not to hit the wall, but I certainly dialed it back after that run.
Having driven this course several times I can say there are quite a few things I don't like about it:
1. Very short course - under 40 seconds for a decent driver.
2. Dusty and gravel ridden surface - very slick compared to clean tarmac.
3. Extremely low speed - never need 3rd gear in an Evo.
4. The course entrance and exit are not only placed together, but require sharp turns in tight quarters with curbs AND empty onto a busy road that runs through the facility.
It really sucks!
1. Very short course - under 40 seconds for a decent driver.
2. Dusty and gravel ridden surface - very slick compared to clean tarmac.
3. Extremely low speed - never need 3rd gear in an Evo.
4. The course entrance and exit are not only placed together, but require sharp turns in tight quarters with curbs AND empty onto a busy road that runs through the facility.
It really sucks!
Last edited by supergengo; Dec 5, 2011 at 09:57 AM.
I just watched the vid... he was entering a braking zone at the end of the run it looks like. Then he just stomps on the throttle and turns the wrong way.
I think he may have stomped on the wrong pedal.
I think he may have stomped on the wrong pedal.
Evolving Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 116
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From: wallkill, ny
ok so after seeing that first person vid (which gave a better perspective on the distance from course to curb) I'm gonna have to change my opion on some of the things the OP posted. I now think the design was not as bad as it seemed. yes the start and finish are a little too close than i'm use to but there was plenty of distance from the curb and the course. esp since ur coming out of a slolum which u don't get that much speed in and ur going into a braking zone.
but still the OP is right that non of the course workers should have been squatting down. at our SCCA autox they preach that you stand and never turn ur back. We're also told not to take cameras. Every now and then they will allow someone they trust to bounce around on the outer boundrys with a camera but it's usally a vet that knows the meaning of safe distance and being cautious.
and someone pointed out no flags. i just realized i didn't see any. esp when u wrecked there shoulda been flags all over the place.
btw 40 secs is short but still fun as those corse are usually tight turns. I do got one here where the fastest time of the day is in the 52 secs and most do it in a minute give or take. I'm lucky enough to have a club that worked out a deal with my base to do a course three times a year on a auxilary runway. lane changes sometimes net 80 mph in some of the cars. they usually open up the course to give the pwr monsters some fun.
but still the OP is right that non of the course workers should have been squatting down. at our SCCA autox they preach that you stand and never turn ur back. We're also told not to take cameras. Every now and then they will allow someone they trust to bounce around on the outer boundrys with a camera but it's usally a vet that knows the meaning of safe distance and being cautious.
and someone pointed out no flags. i just realized i didn't see any. esp when u wrecked there shoulda been flags all over the place.
btw 40 secs is short but still fun as those corse are usually tight turns. I do got one here where the fastest time of the day is in the 52 secs and most do it in a minute give or take. I'm lucky enough to have a club that worked out a deal with my base to do a course three times a year on a auxilary runway. lane changes sometimes net 80 mph in some of the cars. they usually open up the course to give the pwr monsters some fun.
Having driven this course several times I can say there are quite a few things I don't like about it:
1. Very short course - under 40 seconds for a decent driver.
2. Dusty and gravel ridden surface - very slick compared to clean tarmac.
3. Extremely low speed - never need 3rd gear in an Evo.
4. The course entrance and exit are not only placed together, but require sharp turns in tight quarters with curbs AND empty onto a busy road that runs through the facility.
It really sucks!
1. Very short course - under 40 seconds for a decent driver.
2. Dusty and gravel ridden surface - very slick compared to clean tarmac.
3. Extremely low speed - never need 3rd gear in an Evo.
4. The course entrance and exit are not only placed together, but require sharp turns in tight quarters with curbs AND empty onto a busy road that runs through the facility.
It really sucks!
i am not sure you guys get the famous Mitsubishi slogan :
"spirit of competition"
anyway look at these cars 80+ runner and look where the food and tables ..on the track... LOL Look the exit etc.
Danger ... you kidding me in the parking lot in 2nd gear... LOL
you guys have no clue about danger. Seems to me sometimes the racing and danger are really misunderstood around here.
Two months ago in Hungary i was a small mini rally /autoX, if you wish
look and this we call it safe LOL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YB6hFoC0ggo
here are some cars i liked, some of them 800 hp ...
what would you do if you get in this environment when you show up with your car? Go home and not "race" because its dangerous?
WHat is really racing means?
That guy ****ed it up end of story. Has nothing to do with design - gravel - cold slicks etc. That is all PART of the RACING!
You should negotiate with the elements thorough your run and finish. If you crash there is NOBODY to blame but yourself, simple is that.
Geeez
Rob
There are two different philosophies at play here, and I think both are correct in their given environments. From RobEvo's perspective, a racer at the track is responsible for his own safety no matter what the track presents you. From Brave1heart's perspective, the onus is typically on the course designer for an autocross - you can't expect autocrossers to hold back due to compromised safety elements. For one, an autocrosser can't be assumed to have the same level of skill and experience that a racer will typically have when they both enter their given arenas. There's a reason many racing series require specific licensing while anyone with a valid drivers license can show up at an autocross and have a go. With that said, it's typically incumbent upon the autocross designer and/or organizers to design the course and run the event so as to minimize the risks of someone making a mistake and performing a curb whack or such. Those incidents have also turned into rollovers, broken limbs, and in at least one instance, death. So, for the health of autocross, it's vitally important to do everything you can to minimize the possibility of those sorts of events from happening. Moving that course element much further away from the curbing would have accomplished that. Hope that helps all involved here.
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 61
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From: United States
Yes, spot on, EJ. 
We always want to minimize the possibility of stuff like that happening for everyone's safety and also for the clubs in the area to be able to keep the venue. Also agree that ultimately, everyone should be responsible for themselves. I'm all for individual responsibility, and that is getting harder to find these days.
We always want to minimize the possibility of stuff like that happening for everyone's safety and also for the clubs in the area to be able to keep the venue. Also agree that ultimately, everyone should be responsible for themselves. I'm all for individual responsibility, and that is getting harder to find these days.
