Okay, trying to keep this brief.

Background- I have a fast street car that gets track time. I need new seats for it and am unsure whether or not to pick up some stock 'fatman' Recaro's or get some fixed back seats that will actually fit me. I'd prefer to not slide around in my seat, but I don't want to make the car less safe in any way.


-The 'general belief' floating around is that if you want to have a fixed back seat, then you should have a roll-cage/bar to protect you from a rollover in which case people like to claim that with no rollbar, a stock seat would protect you because it would essentially break in half if the roof collapsed, somehow miraculously saving you from death. Insert sarcasm here.

-Observations that go against that 1) I have read from someone that can be considered an expert in the field that most deaths and serious injuries resulting from a flip are when the car is upside down, the drivers drops down headfirst onto the roof with considerable force. 2) People seem to buy into this because you see a lot of people running harness bars with fixed back seats and harnesses. <- that goes along with the don't smack your head of the roof idea, but goes against the old adage that if you are using something that locks you in place (in this case a fixed back seat and a harness), that you want rollover protection in the form of a cage.

So I go through the process in my head. Ok I want a fixed back seat to hold me in better. That means I should have a harness right? Well you need proper provision for a harness so the first option is a cage/roll bar. The problem with that is every expert in the field says bottom line that cages have absolutely no place in a street car or in any car driver without a helmet. So that leaves driving around with a helmet, or just using a harness bar, which goes against the idea of protecting you in a rollover.

So assume somehow the roof is strong enough that you won't get crushed and that a harness bar, proper harness and fixed back seats are a-okay for a street car which by the way seems to be the general consensus from just about every shop around. Or assume you're a jackass and like driving your car around with a helmet

So then how about frontal collision? Seems a lot more likely to me that you'd smack dead into something rather than flip the car. Body stays still, neck violently snaps forward. Thinking of the late Dale Earnhardt..... Okay now, getting silly, going to need a hans device.

Well then, how about side impact? With that fixed back seat? Might you need a door bar too? So now I picture myself in public, crawling out of my four cylinder four door sedan, past my nascar door beam with my helmet and hans device on....

Okay I promised to keep it short and by now I'm pretty sure I did the opposite and have gotten silly but I'm sure you can see where I'm coming from.

So now I'm thinking, should I just not mess with any of this safety equipment? Safety items mentioned seem to have a waterfall effect of necessity once you add just one of the pieces. But then I think, evo's never got great crash test ratings in the first place anyhow?

See what I mean?

So options I see now are; stock seats, JDM evo seats or a fixed back seat, all with nothing other than a CG lock.... and obviously a helmet on the track


Any thoughts?

 

There's two threads just below covering most of this.

 

i think a rear roll bar (not cage) with fixed back seat and oem seat belt for street would be fine, that's what i use. then i use 6 point harness with head/neck restraint at track. it would be pretty hard to hit your head on a rear roll bar with fixed back seat. most convertibles have rear roll bars.

you also brought up a good point. i see a lot of discussions about harness but no head/neck restraint. i would never consider using a harness without one.

here'a a recent video of a Cobra convertible rollover.

http://www.streetfire.net/video/must...gs_2361539.htm

 

Didn't want to steal EvoJoe's fire and although my first post was pretty encompassing, my main question is IS IT REALLY UNSAFE TO RUN A FIXED BACK SEAT.

I should have made that clearer

 

Without rollover protection, no, it is very unsafe. But as honda mentioned, with some basics, it's safe-er. OEM seats with a racing lap belt would be a safer bet.

 

I guess my take on that is: only if things go terribly wrong.

I struggled with this all year. I was going to do a 4 point bar with seats and harnesses. I do mostly HPDE and autoX. I finally decided that I will most likely want to try a time attack or hill climb and decided to maximize track safety. I am going to go with a full cage.

The green house on the Evo is pretty tall . I think a well thought out cage can provide max distance between bars and your head. Then again I go back to my opening statement.

 

For awhile I ran with a 4pt rollbar and modified stock seats. I took them to an upholstery shop and had a hole made for a subbelt and ran 6pts. This was a great upgrade and with the Alcantra (not leather) stock seats I was very well held in place. I've got pics if you wanna see.

Since then I've upgraded to a fixed back Sparco, and now a Sparco with Halo head protection.

Boltz - I'll sell you my Autopower 4pt rollbar in about 2 months! I could include a fixed back seat too. PM if interested.

 

I think that if your gonna roll over,fix or stock back seat , your pretty much screwed either way if you don't have a cage or bar . If your in a stock seat and your in a roll over and your expecting the seats back to break away, who's to say it won't break forward towards the steering wheel.. I'd rather have a fixed back bucket seat.. Your more prone not to be throwen around and chances are the top of your helmet is probably only about an inch or two above the top of the seat.. Atleast that's how I roll.. That or keep it on the track.

 

I have back seats for custom made for roll cage/roll bar...can let it go for cheap

 

My opinion is that a fixed back seat offers more protection than the stock seats in most, if not all, aspects, even with out a cage. The primary safety purpose of the seat is to keep you held in place while the car's safety mechanisms do their job of dissipating the energy of the crash.

if you're operating in situations where you suspect that the the roll over limits of the chassis are going to be compromised to the point that you have to worry about weather your seat is going to hit the roof or not then I think the choice of seat at that point isn't going to make much difference and you better damn well just get a cage installed.