Evolution Dynamics Pikes Peak Build
Aug 16, 2012, 09:47 AM
#453
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That would be fun to investigate. I dont know, i suppose this is an example of how different some people think. If i were planning to run this event and someone who has experience with it takes the time to tell me its in my best interest to add a few bars, id add them.
i would bet its not nearly as well as you guys think it will.
Aug 16, 2012, 10:07 AM
#454
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Here is a bit of info on roll cage requirements for hillcimbing for anyone that is interested. You can run a hillclimb with the SCCA with a car prepped to Street mod prep, (which could be very similar to this car) and run with only a roll bar. Yes, i said only a roll bar and not a full cage. You can run hillclimbs up in Vermont without any roll protection (with a break out time). People need to understand that hillclimbing has been around for a long time and that there are alot of old timers and vintage people that run these events. They have fought hard over the years to keep safety rules to a minimum. Events like Pikes peak and Mt washington are very unique hills in regards to safety but smaller hillclimbs throught the US are no less dangerous. These two big hills have evolved over the years and do require full cage protection and other things that not too long ago where not required. In reality, the safety requirements (that this car passed) are already very strict for hillclimbs!
So if you want to come hillclimb you can do it without a full prepped race car. Come on out!
Now having more then required is something that a person must do on their own.
So if you want to come hillclimb you can do it without a full prepped race car. Come on out!
Now having more then required is something that a person must do on their own.
Aug 16, 2012, 10:19 AM
#455
Here is a bit of info on roll cage requirements for hillcimbing for anyone that is interested. You can run a hillclimb with the SCCA with a car prepped to Street mod prep, (which could be very similar to this car) and run with only a roll bar. Yes, i said only a roll bar and not a full cage. You can run hillclimbs up in Vermont without any roll protection (with a break out time). People need to understand that hillclimbing has been around for a long time and that there are alot of old timers and vintage people that run these events. They have fought hard over the years to keep safety rules to a minimum. Events like Pikes peak and Mt washington are very unique hills in regards to safety but smaller hillclimbs throught the US are no less dangerous. These two big hills have evolved over the years and do require full cage protection and other things that not too long ago where not required. In reality, the safety requirements (that this car passed) are already very strict for hillclimbs!
So if you want to come hillclimb you can do it without a full prepped race car. Come on out!
Now having more then required is something that a person must do on their own.
So if you want to come hillclimb you can do it without a full prepped race car. Come on out!
Now having more then required is something that a person must do on their own.
This year I'm coming back with a 8 pt cage, 6 pt harness, and 1 piece seat. There's a 315' fall to the bottom of a creek if you go off on the top....
Same rules apply, but they allow ST class cars in all of our local hill climb events. Safety equipment not necessary...
Aug 16, 2012, 10:33 AM
#456
We just like to have a good race where we attend , and not tragic or nation wide news in a bad way. That maybe benefits for some in a short run, but a big pictures is just bad for everyone.
I suggest to skip that shop for Hillclimb and rally builds, since he clearly doesnt even register the benefits and will from helping hands , like Dave offered. Never mind the danger what he plays with , when you let go your driver and co-driver out there in those conditions.
He mightbe a best AutoX - drag and circuit car builder, i am not debating that. What he did like welds and the material held together. There is no more say to that.
But when he clearly debates the rally cage strenght vs his own creation, that is where you have to leave the bus, if you go to hill climb or rally race.
Aug 16, 2012, 10:45 AM
#457
I'm running Bible Creek HC this weekend. I did it last year with my IX that only had a harness bar and a schroth 4-pt. Tech inspection included kicking the tires, and making sure the battery was securely mounted.
This year I'm coming back with a 8 pt cage, 6 pt harness, and 1 piece seat. There's a 315' fall to the bottom of a creek if you go off on the top....
Same rules apply, but they allow ST class cars in all of our local hill climb events. Safety equipment not necessary...
This year I'm coming back with a 8 pt cage, 6 pt harness, and 1 piece seat. There's a 315' fall to the bottom of a creek if you go off on the top....
Same rules apply, but they allow ST class cars in all of our local hill climb events. Safety equipment not necessary...
You need an instructor for you first HPDE event for a whole day preferably, basically you CAN'T run solo as a rookie.
But you can run PP with no previous hill climb or rally experince, basically with an open class AWD turbo car.
When i was at my fist HPDE evnet in lime rock to test my car with a new suspension goodies, i had to have an instructor in my car, since i didnt have a history with that CLUB!
Or my first autoX event they put an instructor next to me. I didnt argue i find it amusing actually, and i DID understand where they came from.
Now that is a driver ability, right? So go back to the cages.
You can run hillclmibs with bone stock cars, if you stay in side the brake out time (if i call it right)
I am not against rookies, in fact i would encurage everybody to try it. The best racing form for our car hands down is a hillclimb and rally. But only thing is i am asking for you guys to stay smart as much as possible
!And when you decide to do something look up forums which are much more knowlidgable about this type of races. Like Rally and Hillclimb forums.
(ps:some of you guys ,really dont wanna see they opinion there about this whole fiasco... LOL )
Aug 16, 2012, 10:51 AM
#458
Yes that is true. What is facinating about the USA race scene is:
You need an instructor for you first HPDE event for a whole day preferably, basically you CAN'T run solo as a rookie.
But you can run PP with no previous hill climb or rally experince, basically with an open class AWD turbo car.
When i was at my fist HPDE evnet in lime rock to test my car with a new suspension goodies, i had to have an instructor in my car, since i didnt have a history with that CLUB!
Or my first autoX event they put an instructor next to me. I didnt argue i find it amusing actually, and i DID understand where they came from.
Now that is a driver ability, right? So go back to the cages.
You can run hillclmibs with bone stock cars, if you stay in side the brake out time (if i call it right)
I am not against rookies, in fact i would encurage everybody to try it. The best racing form for our car hands down is a hillclimb and rally. But only thing is i am asking for you guys to stay smart as much as possible !
And when you decide to do something look up forums which are much more knowlidgable about this type of races. Like Rally and Hillclimb forums.
(ps:some of you guys ,really dont wanna see they opinion there about this whole fiasco... LOL )
You need an instructor for you first HPDE event for a whole day preferably, basically you CAN'T run solo as a rookie.
But you can run PP with no previous hill climb or rally experince, basically with an open class AWD turbo car.
When i was at my fist HPDE evnet in lime rock to test my car with a new suspension goodies, i had to have an instructor in my car, since i didnt have a history with that CLUB!
Or my first autoX event they put an instructor next to me. I didnt argue i find it amusing actually, and i DID understand where they came from.
Now that is a driver ability, right? So go back to the cages.
You can run hillclmibs with bone stock cars, if you stay in side the brake out time (if i call it right)
I am not against rookies, in fact i would encurage everybody to try it. The best racing form for our car hands down is a hillclimb and rally. But only thing is i am asking for you guys to stay smart as much as possible
!And when you decide to do something look up forums which are much more knowlidgable about this type of races. Like Rally and Hillclimb forums.
(ps:some of you guys ,really dont wanna see they opinion there about this whole fiasco... LOL )
Short story, I get grouped with the novice class since it was my first attendance with this particular group, even though I signed up for the 'open' sessions.
I was coming up on cars like Ford Fiestas that were hitting MAYBE 75 MPH while I'm travelling 145+. Supposedly this was safe....
Ever crest the apex of a corner onto a straight to find a car doing maybe 40? It's a serious oh f**k moment!
Aug 16, 2012, 11:05 AM
#459
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Doing these hillclimbs without a proper rally cage is just asking for trouble. How do I know? Check out:
That was at Mt. Ascutney in Vermont, running with the New England Hillclimb Association. I hit a patch of oil. Thankfully this was in an Open-class rally car with a full CARS spec cage, so I was fine and the damage was minimal.
Is your life worth a few thousand dollars worth of safety gear?
That was at Mt. Ascutney in Vermont, running with the New England Hillclimb Association. I hit a patch of oil. Thankfully this was in an Open-class rally car with a full CARS spec cage, so I was fine and the damage was minimal.
Is your life worth a few thousand dollars worth of safety gear?
Here is a bit of info on roll cage requirements for hillcimbing for anyone that is interested. You can run a hillclimb with the SCCA with a car prepped to Street mod prep, (which could be very similar to this car) and run with only a roll bar. Yes, i said only a roll bar and not a full cage. You can run hillclimbs up in Vermont without any roll protection (with a break out time). People need to understand that hillclimbing has been around for a long time and that there are alot of old timers and vintage people that run these events. They have fought hard over the years to keep safety rules to a minimum. Events like Pikes peak and Mt washington are very unique hills in regards to safety but smaller hillclimbs throught the US are no less dangerous. These two big hills have evolved over the years and do require full cage protection and other things that not too long ago where not required. In reality, the safety requirements (that this car passed) are already very strict for hillclimbs!
So if you want to come hillclimb you can do it without a full prepped race car. Come on out!
Now having more then required is something that a person must do on their own.
So if you want to come hillclimb you can do it without a full prepped race car. Come on out!
Now having more then required is something that a person must do on their own.
Last edited by peter*g; Aug 16, 2012 at 11:13 AM.
Aug 16, 2012, 12:38 PM
#460
The silly thing about drag racing is that they do not take into account MPH. So you can launch soft to run a slow ET (so as to avoid breaking 11 seconds and having to get a cage) but still have a very high MPH.
Aug 16, 2012, 01:12 PM
#462
I believe the Silver State Classic classes cars based on their max or potential MPH. If you run over your MPH or under your time for the race you are disqualified. Each higher class has more stringent safety requirements.
Perhaps PPIHC will look at using some formula like this. You must claim the fastest time you think your car is capable of and it must meet the safety requirements for that time. If you break out in practice the car must be made to meet the requirements before you can run again. If you break out in the race you are DSQ and not invited back.
BUT, this still doesn't address motorcycles and ATV's running in the 9 and 10 minute range. . .
Perhaps PPIHC will look at using some formula like this. You must claim the fastest time you think your car is capable of and it must meet the safety requirements for that time. If you break out in practice the car must be made to meet the requirements before you can run again. If you break out in the race you are DSQ and not invited back.
BUT, this still doesn't address motorcycles and ATV's running in the 9 and 10 minute range. . .
Aug 16, 2012, 01:39 PM
#463
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- I am very disapointed in KevinD's lack of humility. It wasn't your cage that saved these guys. It was sheer luck/providence/the hand of God - whatever you want to call it. That wreck could happen 10 times and 9 of those these guys would not have walked away. What I would have liked to hear is "we will learn from this incident and take steps to build an even safer car in the future." I don't think I read anything like that yet. . . maybe I missed it.
the leaking oil line we were messing with all week too. when you think its fixed, its aparently not. it wasn't a problem until we got there for some reason, but thats how it is with racing. every single competitive team there was working out issues with the cars. not a single one of them was able to do all the practices and the race without someone messing with something. DaveK had a leaking radiator, christy carlson broke an axle, brianne popped an IC pipe off, and had several clutch/hydraulic issues. the RS200 cars all had tranny problems, the love fab car went off twice, the audi for pobst had engine problems they werent able to fix for the race in time.
Aug 16, 2012, 01:42 PM
#464
Evolved Member
I believe the Silver State Classic classes cars based on their max or potential MPH. If you run over your MPH or under your time for the race you are disqualified. Each higher class has more stringent safety requirements.
Perhaps PPIHC will look at using some formula like this. You must claim the fastest time you think your car is capable of and it must meet the safety requirements for that time. If you break out in practice the car must be made to meet the requirements before you can run again. If you break out in the race you are DSQ and not invited back.
BUT, this still doesn't address motorcycles and ATV's running in the 9 and 10 minute range. . .
Perhaps PPIHC will look at using some formula like this. You must claim the fastest time you think your car is capable of and it must meet the safety requirements for that time. If you break out in practice the car must be made to meet the requirements before you can run again. If you break out in the race you are DSQ and not invited back.
BUT, this still doesn't address motorcycles and ATV's running in the 9 and 10 minute range. . .
And, I am glad you mentioned the bikes. There is nothing that can be done to protect them in event they go off like Jeremy did. Hopefully, there will be guardrail or barriers on crazy parts of the hill like where Jeremy went off.
Aug 16, 2012, 02:43 PM
#465
Superb post. Well said. Yes, if the organizers did something along the lines of the Silver State Classic based on speed potential, this would help improve safety no doubt. Silver State Classic is more grassroots run like Pikes Peak. Perhaps drivers who compete should have experience in other hillclimbs in addition to rally or road racing experience. Now that the race is run completely on asphalt, speeds are getting a lot higher. Might we see people in the Unlimited class someday do the hill in 9 minutes?
And, I am glad you mentioned the bikes. There is nothing that can be done to protect them in event they go off like Jeremy did. Hopefully, there will be guardrail or barriers on crazy parts of the hill like where Jeremy went off.
And, I am glad you mentioned the bikes. There is nothing that can be done to protect them in event they go off like Jeremy did. Hopefully, there will be guardrail or barriers on crazy parts of the hill like where Jeremy went off.