Ok guys, I've searched for the last 30 minutes, but I cannot find any other threads that provide more detail as to the dangers of a harness and no rollcage, so I'll post my questions here:

1.) Would a HANS device lessen the likelihood of neck injuries in a rollover, or is the primary issue the fact that the roof would be crushed onto your skull w/out your body being able to move out of the way?

2.) What about the Schroth Auto Control harnesses? Seems like they might give enough slack, assuming that the belt releases its tension during a rollover...

l8r)

 

1. no, yes.

2. can't help ya there. I wanted a camera mount/harness bar, and it just made more sense to get the autopower roll bar for little more than the sparco harness bar, so i'm outta the rolling discussion

 

Well, the way I figure it, it really doesn't matter whether you use a harness bar or tie your harness into the c-pillar (a'la Schroth Rally 3) if you don't have a rollcage. Either way you're still prone to severe head injury in a rollover. And I'm not really comfortable having a steel bar located just behind my seat, waiting to crush into my spine...

l8r)

 

confused at what you mean... a harness bar crushing into you? or a roll bar. Roll bar ain't goin nowhere.

 

Eh? Sorry ... harness bar.

l8r)

 

i run the schroth ralleye 4 harness in my car. They bolted in to wear the stock seat belt bolts go and then go back to wear the rear seatbelts bolt in. I use my stock seat belt on a daily basis, then just click in my schroth.
Shcroth has a safety device in their harnesses, to wear a clip break off, behind the seat, and allows for 2" of more travel. This clip breaks off under hard impacts with the momentum of your body going forward. This allows the driver to sink in the seat very minutely in a roll over, thus decreasing the risk of a neck injury from the roof caving in.

 

The HANS device is meant to keep the head and neck in line with your spinal cord in a frontal impact.
During a sudden head on collision without the HANS, your head snaps forward. Due to the extra weight on your head with the helmet, your neck is at a higher strain. By keeping the neck in line with your spinal cord, this reduces the likeliness of you snapping your neck in a frontal impact.
But in answer to your question, no the HANS will not protect your neck from a roll over crash

 

I'm afraid you misunderstand the schroth reasoning for the piece on the inside shoulder. It's an Anti-submarine feature. By the very name, it means it's meant to KEEP you from sliding under the lap belts.

In an impact, it lets go inside that clip, allowing your body to twist just a touch, and setting your lower body from moving, then the belt tightens, and keeps you from going forward anymore. You don't sink in the seat, and that in no way is gonna help the roof from caving in on you. (the testing videos were linked on here, but i can't find the links )

With any harness, and no roll bar (you don't need a cage, unless you're going nuts), you will be seriously injured on a rollover. Again, with our aluminium roofs, there can't be much thats gonna stop the roof from caving in anyways. I flex mine pretty significantly every time i wash the car, enough to get me a little nervous

 

A HANS device is designed to protect you from a high-speed frontal collision. It keeps your head from moving forward. It has no role in rollover protection.

Another thing about the HANS device is that it requires an even BIGGER commitment in terms of safety equipment. Not only do you need roll protection, seats, and harnesses, but you need special harnesses and seats that are designed to work with the HANS system. This is not something for the casual weekend warrior.

Emre

 

So I guess as a final question, how would the factory seat belt be any better in protecting from a rollover than something like the Schroth Rally 3 harness or the Schroth Auto control harness?

l8r)

 

Maybe we are talking about a different piece. You said its on the inside shoulder, mine is behind the seat. Are you talking about the Ralleye 4 or a different harness. Just want to make sure we are on the same page, thats all.

The 03 Evo's (like mine) have steel roofs. The MR's came with the aluminum roof. you still get flex with the steel roofs though.

 

I just checked on schroth's website, it says exactly what you said about the extra flap. Sorry for posting 'bad' information, I was misinformed

http://www.schrothracing.com/products/streetlegal/1575

Here is their exact quote:
ASM stands for Anti-SubMarining. It's an extra flap of material sewn into the inboard shoulder belt that prevents you from sliding underneath the lap belt.

 

There are a couple advantages.

(1) Stock belts only hold your outside shoulder in place. That means in a rollover your body can fold over towards the center of the car as the roof comes down.

(2) Stock seats collapse backwards. As the roof comes down, they flatten out. If you have a harness bar back there, the seats not only can't fold all the way, but will slam in your head and neck as the seat collapses.

Emre

 

I think this video (save target as) is what WP was talking about.

Thanks Emre. So it would seem that something like the Schroth harness, while still not optimal is better than running a harness bar w/out a rollbar, since the Schroth harness can be attached to the c-pillar, allowing the stock seat to fold backwards.

l8r)

 

Well, if you insist on using a 4-point, 2" harness without roll protection and with stock seats, then the Schroth with ASM III is the way to go.

Personally, I have a 4-point cage welded into my dedicated track car. I would only use FIA and/or SFI approved 5- or 6-point, 3" harnesses on the track. With auto-x I guess it's less of a concern. Having said that, most guys are running super sticky DOT-R tries these days. So rollovers are still something to consider.

Emre