I had the same issues before I put my harness in a few weeks ago. I found consistent info on mounting points without a harness bar on Schroth, g-force, and sparco's websites so I figure it should be fine. For the two front mounting points us the existing point on the lower b pillar, left and right by the center console. For the two rear points just pop out the rear seat base(two clips to pull and pops off bench) use the "C" and "D" mount points by the rear door stock seat belt bolt and middle seat belt bolt. Didn't take me long at all to get the harness installed.
Hope that helps some

 

I don't do Auto-x, just HPDE using stock Advans, and I don't have the $$ to convert my Evo to a dedicated track car yet. I will have to do some research to see if I can find a rollbar that does not eliminate the use of my rear seat for passengers.

l8r)

 

If you're driving at high speeds on a track, the consensus is you do one of two things. Either leave the safety equipment totally stock (i.e., reclining seats, 3-point inertia reel belts, airbag intact) or you go with a full SCCA/SFI/FIA approved setup (i.e., roll protection, 5- or 6-point 3" harnesses, fixed-back racing seats, and disabled airbags). Anything else is a safety compromise.

4-point belts will always have a submarining risk. Harness bars will always be risky in rear-end collisions (where the seat backs can collapse) or in rollovers. Improperly mounted harnesses that go down to the rear seatbelt bolts risk spinal compression injuries in frontal impacts. And cheap 2" belts will always stretch too much, especially in long lengths, which means greater risk of smashing your face into stuff.

Basically, you can get away with cutting corners in local auto-x. But you don't want to screw around on a racetrack...especially if you've got 350+ AWHP and DOT-R tires. At those speeds, you don't want to half-*** your safety equipment.

Emre

 

Thanks for keeping the info coming, Emre.

I don't want to seem argumentative, since I really am just trying to reason all this stuff out, so I will ask one more question:

- what do you think of the anti-submarining technology used on the Schroth harnesses?

After watching their crash test videos (linked in an earlier post), even the stock seatbelts look to run the risk of submarining badly. I'd also like to note that Schroth states that a 2" lap belt (not the shoulder harness) is apparently preferable to a 3" lap belt. (Article)

I agree wholeheartedly that safety equipment must be done right, and must work together as a whole.

...as an unrelated question, would you qualify the stock Advans as DOT-R tires?

l8r)

 

Personally, I would still never use 4-point 2" harnesses on the track. For auto-x, fine. But not on the track. Having said that, if someone put an gun to my head and forced me to use a 4-point 2" harness, the Schroth with ASM II is the one I'd choose. I'd try to mount the harnesses high enough to minimize the risk of spinal compression (i.e., near the top of the rear deck instead of the lower rear seatbelt mounting points).


True. Schroth has been pushing 2" lap belts and anti-sub straps with 3" shoulder belts. There's some evidence that it might be better. I know Joe Marko from HMS Motorsports is a proponent of this approach. Most racers still use 3" belts all around.


No, they're not classed as DOT-R tires. But the performance is similar to some of the lower end R-comps on the market.

Emre

 

no problem, just don't want someone reading this afterwards, months down the line and getting the wrong idea.

Stock seatbelts won't submarine because of the bottom being tighter. IE: for the bottom to loose, it's gotta slide down your body, make that 180 degree turn, and then slip.

I ran 4 pts, the schroth's for a few years, but after getting a little more serious, and having a partial slide at homestead at 110+, i'm glad i have at least a roll bar in my car.

When i'm out there, it's serious. It's not like a leisurely sunday drive, i'm hauling, and if something happens at those speeds and G loads, it's not gonna be pretty with a stock seat belt, or lack of rollover protection.

3 inch belts fit me fine, and damn am i glued to this seat.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...6&postcount=20

 

good discussion guys, coming from a guy that walked away from a big impact at Summit Point earlier this year in the WC Volvo.

I would agree with the latest batch of posts, that a harness bar is only for autocrossing (BTW even when an autocrosser rolls it's quick and tidy compared to a real road racing crash). Belts need to have strong high mounting points. Kids seat mounts may not be strong enough for an adult crashing at 100+mph.

I agree with Kayaalp's post. Stay stock or go all out (with cage) anything in between is loaded with compromise.

here's to hoping none of use ever need any of this stuff

 

This is the right way to mount them. I replaced the factory bolts with eye bolts. Then I put quick releases on my Schroth harness. This way I can use the regular seat belt for day-to-day driving and snap in my harness in about 1 minute for a track day.

 

" here's to hoping none of use ever need any of this stuff"

amen.

 

Personally, I'm not comfortable with those mounting points at all. Seems like you end up with a fairly steep angle to the harness.

l8r)

 

any body know of any good roll cage kits out there?