Stoptech link proved my theory wrong, LOL.

 

What tires are you running? DTC-60s are very aggressive pads and need to be matched to slicks. I think that it is too much pad for street tires or even R-comps. Just a thought..

 

im using hankook rs3's. ive heard varying opinions on using them on "street tires" but most have said they are fine since the rs3 are so sticky.

not sure how that could lead to issues tho?

 

I'm not sure about the shudder, but I used to have pad taper until I rebuilt the calipers and chucked the dust boots. If you track your car, the dust boots melt in a couple of sessions and become garbage.

 

as in your not running dust boots? are you running ti shims?

 

I'm running the ti shims, but no boots. The boots get mangled in a couple of sessions and I feel they become useless. I could be wrong, but most racing calipers do away with the boots, provided they get rebuilt often.

 

This is primarily why I went with the AP kit, 0 issues, you can see all those pics/findings in the AP thread. But ya i'd agree with the others, shudder under braking is typically only going to happen if they're either warped or severe pad deposits. Brake ducts are your friend.

Also though, since you mention it's only when your at the track and everything's up to temp, it's also likely pad knockback. Low quality rotors only go to enhance the symptom because they'll stay hot with poorly designed vein/cooling.

 

ya know, knockback crossed my mind, but i figured it was low on the list because im not pushing very hard and not riding a lot of curbs, but at the same time the pads that this is happening with are decently worn and thin which i assume would increase chances of knock back.

has anyone run knock back springs on the stock calipers?

i do have ducting, but the first day this happened the ambient temp was barely in the 60's so i closed off the ducts thinking the pads werent getting hot enough. i then did the same the last time out because it almost seems like im not getting the pads anywhere near hot enough leading to bad deposits. i have been told recently that the hawks like tons of heat. the cl rc5+ i used to run are sintered so they were working really well at the temps i was getting, but i proceeded to fade them on an 80 degree day.

maybe i need to go back to something sintered...

 

Brake pad deposits are the likely cause. Maybe you didn't brake the new set in properly. Stock calipers should be replaced after they have stretched. Any street set that have not turned brown will do. The stock brakes are great for the street or short duration racing like hill climbs. If you continue to do 20 minute sessions you should think about racing calipers. I read a quote from Jack Roush about Grand Am going up to 15" rotors saying now instead of losing the brakes in 3 laps they lose them in 8. Charging hard for 20 minutes is asking too much from the stock Evo brakes.

 

On our Evo we ditched the dust shields too. They melt near instantly. We did have two leaky front calipers, but this was before ditching the dust shields. When we cleaned and resealed (minus the dust shields) we haven't had a problem since and we use our brakes harder than most. CL Brakes pads are your friends! We use the RC-8 compound front and rear and the exact reason is because of brake shudder. We previously used Raybesto ST-43 pads, which we loved, except for brake shudder. The CL compound was designed for use in rally racing to work from ice cold to 1900 F. No bed in required is also extremely cool. I don't think I ever want to use another pad after trying these. I would use them on my Hybrid Insight if it wasn't for squeal!

Rebuild the calipers, make sure you don't have any frozen pistons, switch pads and report back. We would prefer to have AP calipers, but the stock Brembo's were even used on the Cyber Evo up until last year, so they aren't that bad.

Dan

 

You had a lot of shudder with ST43's?

Hm, I've only heard good things about RC8's. Wasn't aware there was no bed in needed - and their temp ranges were that wide. Thanks for posting!

How's longevity and wear? I've read people get 3X the pad life with ST43 vs Carbotech - how do the CL pads compare?

 

mine are slightly discolored but not totally brown yet. definitely not ready for race brakes...imho

dan - did you find any increase in fluid contamination or any downsides to not running the dust shields?

the first set of track pads i had was rc5+ and i loved the,. and abused the hell out of them to the point of smearing them and they never faded and never deposited AT ALL. so i really am thinking about going to a set of the RC6's which should have equivalent torque to the dtc60's.

theres a long thread started by jeff ritter of essex parts floating around with tons of good examples of the CL wear from track guys. i believe the previous owner of your car ran them, as well as Nils, and JC meynet has run them also. they are sintered so the cold action is very god, plus they have incredible temp resistance, and have a really neat action where the mu doesnt drop like a rock when overheated, so you dont lose brakes completely.

but i dunno if there are fitments for your BBK.

 

Who makes the CL pads? Are those the Cobalts? A local shop is trying WAY hard to get me to try a set of Cobalts, but I've had good luck with ST-43's so far.

 

CL Pads are made by CL (Carbone Lorraine). A French company that makes train brakes and all sorts of other cool stuff.

The only downside is pad wear. It isn't extremely fast, but faster than the ST43. I would say if we pushed one set of pads, 4 track weekends on our car would be about the limit. Keep in mind, we are hard on brakes though, so results may vary on other cars.

The RC-8 had less wear for us than the RC-6. I have never tried the RC-6E (endurance), which might yield good results!

Dan

 

We have noticed not one ill effect from removing the dust boots either.

Dan