I'd like to hear some feedback from anyone running 4.11 final drive for road racing application. I've done some searching but have not found many reviews on this for road racing setups. From my calculations, going to the 4.11 will save me at least 2-3 shifts per lap at several of the tracks I run at. I don't want to make the change however if the jump out of the corners will be compromised enough to negate the time saved by less shifting.


I'm having 2.3L stroker built over the winter and plan to run around 450hp/450tq on dynojet. This will be ran with an HTA 73 FP Green. The stroker build will supply more torque than what I have been used to with the stock 2.0 bottom end. I just don't want to sink the money into this build and then kick myself for going with the 4.11 if it negates the great launch out of the corners and transient boost I'm used to seeing.
The tranny is being sent out for service already, so this would just be an additional upgrade option I am considering.


Anyone out there running the 4.11 and willing to give feedback?

 

I do not have it, but will after I finish my engine build. The HKS 230R, Cyber Evo, SSE, and Tilton all used the 4.11 gear set so it must be worth it IMHO.

 

Were all the above mentioned cars running OEM gearing 1-5th? Also the power/ torque levels reached in these cars were pretty darn high.

 

Are you using all stock evo 8 gearing?

What size tires?

Have you had any issues with your current trans in the past few seasons? How's 4th gear holding up? 5th gear grinding yet?

 

HKS, and Cyber were not, not sure about SSE, and Tilton uses gears from both the 8, and 9...

 

Gears 1-4 are Evo 8, using Evo 9 5th


Using 265/35/18 BFG R1S or Hoosier R6/A6 275/35/18


Trans has held up well the past few seasons given the punishment it receives. No trouble as of yet with either 4th or 5th. Since I have everything torn apart right now I decided to have it gone through to help prevent having any problems during the season.

 

I have done track days with my 6spd and (once it blew) a Shep ultimate ratio trans with hks 4.11 FD. I'm on stock turbo and long block. All I can say is unless you have SERIOUS torque its not gonna be worth your while. And by serious torque I mean it makes your first 2 gears at least useless. What you loose on tenths of a second shifting per 1:xx minute laps you'll more than loose on slower overall acceleration and especially slower corner exit. And the gears will be so wide you have to have a very wide torque band or be able to keep wheel speed high at all times or you're gonna be caught once in a while pulling out of corners like a N/A corolla. Also harder to rev match because of the big rpm spread.

Only reason I did it is cause I know I'm going to eventually go to a stroker setup with something like a efr7163 for massive torque in mid rpm range without too much left in the high rpm area.

 

From many feedbacks, 4.11 looses acceleration and is usually the means to maintain the drag racing Evo in 4th through traps.

I advise that you build the motor and cam it so that it can make power through 8000-8500rpm, to set redline to say 8500, and give yourself wider power band.

I think that GSC S2 cam will give you power up high, and R2 will give you for sure power up to 8000-8500, but not sure if HTA73 Green will be running out of puff up there...likely will be OK on Pump...
I would limit power/torque on track..you know the drill...its always at full throttle, and if you add power it will take a toll on the engine...I personally limited myself on my 2.3 to 370whp on MD on pump...and 425whp on E85 ...and decided not to even use the car on Ethanol on track to keep stress lower.

So in summary, I would not do the 4.11, I would broaden the power band and enjoy the ultimate ratios...I have the same.

 

Your going to get a lot of bull**** responses on this thread so I'll clear it up. Check out my build thread I had a 4.11 TRE trans with a 2.3 striker, hta green, curt head, and gsc s2 cams.

I made 430whp and about the same torque on e85 and is the power level I tracked at. The Green will loose some top end which is fine. I had my review limiter at 8200 and shifted at 7500 or so.

Excellent choice and I highly recommend it, 90 percent of the time 3rd and 4th is all you need. 2nd gear in rare occasions was used too.

With the 2.3 you will barely notice a difference with your power band over stock gearing.

I'd get the JDM 5th as well just because it makes 5th gear usable if you need it.

Pm me if you have any questions!

 

what xXANCHORMONXx said

 

Jarrod ran the 4.11 I believe and he is still the fastest evo I have seen or heard about. (That is not a shop car)

 

Its first good to see when the 4.11 FD gear came into the evo trans rebuild game. It didn't come in for road racing purposes, it came in for drag racing. And it came in for that purpose purely for saving a shift to 5th gear right at the end of the strip. There are tooons of threads on that so I won't even go into it. All I'll say is the one guy with a little white VIII rs that's sorta well known here had 4.11 and tested it back to back with stock 4.5 gearing. He went back to stock because the tenths lost for shifting to 5th didn't make up for the continuous slight loss of acceleration everywhere else from having a lower gear ratio. It doesn't matter what you feel, time is time and at the end of the day F(at tires)=m*a.


Of course most of that doesn't really matter for road racing since its a different game all together. A 4.11 could make you faster depending on the track, it would have to be a very fast track (or you're just that fast) where you might have go to 5th or 2nd at inopportune times. But this is the realm of tilton evo which everyone knows is the fastest stock body time attack car on the planet. I know 2 years ago they were using a 4.1 FD with 950hp for the large track and 180+mph speeds they hit. If this was autocross and even those guys would want a higher final drive.

Now what most people usually don't mention is the drawbacks of a higher FD. There's never a free meal in life and its the same here. Higher FD makes it harder to take off from a light, especially on an aggressive clutch. It doesn't like to slide into gear as easily as stock too because of the large rpm drop. And where most people spend time cruising (2500ish rpm) there's no boost and the taller gears makes it harder to push through that into rpm ranges where you do have boost.

I can also give you my personal experience on track with the gears as well. I do approximately 15 track sessions a year, the majority is noncompetitive open lapping but 3 to 5 of them are competition time attacks. My class is restricted on 200+ treadwear street tires and minimal aero allowed. The month before I blew my 6spd I was doing consistent 1:23.x on the main track (3 miles long) used for competition for the series and was about 2nd in my class. After my trans rebuild I have a 5spd ultimate ratio and 4.11 FD because I was as **** hard as anyone else to do it. I also had a 12plate rear diff put in (previously stock not even restacked) and wavetrac front diff with a swift front swaybar as well. The rest of the setup was the exactly same. I dropped to consistent 1:25.x and was way out of contention after that. IMO this was because my car was just slower to accelerate everywhere and the spread in rpm so wide I would sometimes have to do things like be at the top of 2nd to get good corner exit before going to 3rd instead of staying in 3rd like before. For this track and my speeds this setup was not a winner. This might change with a stroker and and better turbo..... I'm hoping lol.

Anyways its your car and your money at the end of the day. Take from my post what you wish. I've done timed back to back testing more than seat of the pants testing which is why I'm being so insistent.

 

I have a 2.3 and BBK-B on Roadrace E85 & 91 pump fuel tunes, ultimate ratios (JDM 5th gear) gearbox, and I cannot agree that 4.11 won't be felt: sorry.
I think it is felt hugely, except if you have not tried the 2.3 with 4.53...than all you know is 4.11.

The 2.3 w/responsive stock frames has so much low-end torque that on Northern California tracks I can nearly drive the whole track in 4th, safe myself down shift and consequent upshift, and maybe have 2 occasions for 3rd gear and 2 occasions for 5th gear, per lap.
Going to 4.11, I would be in 3rd and 4th...and I trust have a little less drive.

Todd is clever, and maybe has an idea where he finds the 4.11 to be beneficial: maybe you can expand?

I see potentially a reason to have 4.11 once you run 500+whp on Mustang, but frankly at that power level you'll be blowing the motor with some frequency, something that we amateurs should not be exploring, i.e. asking for trouble.

I personally prefer to run on 91 on track to keep boost/power lower and work on the line and braking points. And on pump fuel, 4.11 would totally hurt acceleration.

 

i was looking into the same thing last winter also when i was getting motor built. i went with the 2.3L because it was a cheaper build, but it ended up costing more because i used a crappy shop and motor only lasted 2 events. i have TRE ultimate ratio tranny. rev limit set to 7500 but i usually shift before that. there's some local tracks that i had to make a quick short shift into 5th but i think i would be faster staying in 4th and try to not let it bounce off rev limiter.

then i went to CBRD for a 2.2 build. it's the best of both world, more stoke than stock and able to rev like the 2.0. i set the rev limit to 8k, but usually shift at 7500, unless i need to rev it out so i don't have to shift. did 4 events with the new setup so far, i'm very happy with it.

btw, i run NASA TT3 and TT2, which is limited to 320 whp and 370 whp (mustang on 93 gas). my hp curve is flat from 4k-8k rpm

my friend who's an autoxer was in the same situation with 480 whp (mustang) setup. he had to shift into 3rd on some of the pro course. it was either raise the rev limit or go with taller FD. he did all the math and decided to go with 2.2 and reved it to 9k for the same result

 

You can rev 2.3, and it makes power on top as long as cams and turbo can support it.
Buschur revs his personal 2.3 to 9900 daily!
It's "common wisdom" 8500 is good place to stop on 4G64 Oem crank , but us who opted for Buschur lightweight crank or comparable K1, Arrow, etc, see no reason to limit lower.
Albait, I like to respect my car so I self limited to 7500rpm for now, cams and turbo can support 8500 redline but I just adapt driving style to revlimit.