First off I am talking about cars that actually made it to the US or North America in general, some of the cars you mention never made it to this market. The Gallant didn't enter the US until the 90's if I recall and was just pushing over 230hp which is a far cry from the WELL (and I stress well as we have 1,000hp evo's out there) over 300hp we see today. I am also talking about NEW models not ones from the 60's & 70's that were being raced in the 80's.

Second; in the late 1970's and early 1980's there were plenty of sports cars that were powered by V8's not even making 300hp I owned a few of these cars myself and they were gutless. After they started adding emissions and fuel economy features to cars which was relatively new at that time power plummeted. I don't remember any super hot NEW cars around in the late 70's early 80's because most were pigs.

Around that time we started started seeing these odd 4cylinder vehicles being sold in bicycle shops, brands like Honda and Datsun. Interest peaked for these vehicles, high quality, good efficiency and cheap...however they were gutless and you needed to turn off AC (if equipped) just to pass on the freeway or climb a hill. Folks still wanted efficiency so GM, Ford, Chrysler/Dodge coming out wit these turbo 6 and 4 motors towards the end of the 80's starting to make power. Most were still under the 300hp mark but some folks that modified the Grand National and GNX were killing it.

In the end, I am trying to make a point that the worlds needs will change and design will follow. When the muscle car days ended enthusiast cried and moaned about the NEW sport cars that sprung up due to new fuel economy and emission standards that came to be in the US (not Europe and other countries with different standards). At first sports cars here in the US were underpowered and weak even V8's were. After some time there were innovative designs and now it is nothing to see 4 cylinder motors push over 300hp/V8 pushing over 400hp and getting way better gas mileage and putting out way less emissions than before. You can argue that; but, I was there in that time and remember it well and have seen power levels get back to the 60's and early 70's while emissions and economy improved.

That's just it I guess, my perspective is not North American. I was exposed to OHC engines and RHD cars :D.

The Galant was released with 230 or so like you said, but guys were driving them with well over 300bhp in short order. The Eagle Talon, Mitsubishi Eclipse and Plymouth Laser too.

I see the car as something that was purpose built and like one person said, when its purpose is gone just shoot it. Build the car that's so green that it sprouts leaves out the bodywork, intake and exhaust. Just dont call it an Evolution. Lancia still makes a car called the Delta, but they dont sully their Evoluzione by associating the two.


One question that has always been on my mind, why are push rods still so popular vs OHC in the US ?

How come there was not a shift toward the OHC configuration ?
I have only seen them in high end GM cars like the ZR 1 and some Cadillacs.

Open question to anyone that can offer some perspective please.

I, for one, welcome our new Diesel Overlords and I would give purchasing one of these as a daily some serious consideration. Being able to have performance when I want it, Green Tech when I want it, and the latest gadgets and gizmos is great. :)

"if the purpose is dead just shoot it"... how about evolve it to a new purpose? It's what I love about the Evo, technology evolves with it every revision. It's not some car where they just keep building and building and building until one day it's a fat nasty pig that has no purpose.

The X does fantastic on road courses. I'd love to see more of them out there. I really feel that the X has found a niche there (imo HPDE's are more popular in NA than rally). If they do the XI correctly, they could make them dominate at the local track as well.

I personally can't wait. While I won't be first in line because I never buy anything first (let others sort out the bugs), I'll strongly consider one.

As far as the diesels rotting on the lot (bmw's). That in my opinion is because they aren't high performance diesels and rich snobby bastard bmw drivers can't be seen with a diesel! Noize knows how much I despise BMW drivers here, so I had to get that shot in there ;)

I'm also sure most people have about the same reaction of surprise when seeing a diesel BMW as they do when Nascar makes another left turn. When they see this, the look of WTF will be all over their faces. Not that I care what others think, but this will be a very unique car indeed.

It's too bad they are just starting R&D... I would really like to know more about which direction they are officially taking this, and I would like to see a clear cut prototype to see if the aesthetics even appeal to me.

...I'm just dreaming though :P

Now the real question is. Do I buy an X next year, or buy a XI in 2014?

That was a great Simpsons episode!

This is only partly true. We do not get the same quality diesel here that they do in EU. Much more sulfur, which make it harder for the same cars to pass emissions. If we'd get the same stuff, then we'd get the same emissions ratings. Also, EU emissions ratings in most high population countries look like CA ones.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I strongly believe that all the Corvette's retain the OHV system, and not the OHC one.

When it comes to the reason it is still used, more parts equal more costs, designing, producing, maintaining the engine. Pushrod is used for it's simplicity and overall effectiveness (in some applications; I won't deny that some examples are not worth mentionning).

Ex : the 2.8/3.1/3.4/3.8L engines you could find in any GM sedan. Simple engine, low production costs, acceptable power numbers, high reliability. They kept them around for 25+ years, changing small bits at a time, producing variants, but overall keeping the same engine design. It's no wonder Gm sells brand new cobalts so cheap (seen them at 10k's $ in a local Can dealership, as of last year, same price a new Hyundai Accent HB base model would go for) and Civics and Mazda 3's won't go under 14-15 k's. Fancy i-Vtec and such raises the costs.

You don't need DOHC on a corvette to produce 638hp... only a supercharger and 6.2L will do. But then, why not reduce the capacity of the engine, take the supercharger off, then put it DOHC? Because it would cost more producing an overall brand new engine, than to add a supercharger to last year's engine...

^^^ Ahh...another ray of sunlight. {thumbup}

This is not an Evolution, it's a regression.
Edit: Oh ****, my first post on the forums!

I was not clear. I was referring to the 1989-1990 ZR 1 with the LT 5. It was a DOHC, but later models reverted to the push rod. That had me a bit baffled.

Isn't the car price more of a reflection of the pecking order in the market place than what's in the car ?
For instance the same Hyundais have OHC engines no ?

Is it just a matter of costs in the North American market ?
Aren't the multi valve engines (4/5 valves per cylinder ) inherently more efficient too ?
Seems strange since in North America people like to be on the leading edge in so many other respects.

Thanks for your input Xmaster19.

Maybe it wont be so bad i wouldn't mind 400, 500 foot pounds, specially if its getting 30 plus

A couple of points.

If they start in 2012 and estimate 3 years then we are at 2015, perhaps the 2016 model year. Not 2014! 3 years is an estimate and assumes they don't have any development issues/delays.

Hydrogen. Expensive to generate the hydrogen, using large amounts of electricity. Very volatile in compressed state. Requires and entirely new very expensive high pressure distribution system. Finally, the first wreck of a hyrdrogen vehicle were the hydrogen fuel tank explodes will be catastrophic, remember the Hindenberg.

For me, the question is what is the future of the EVO X from now until 2015-2016. Will it stay in production? I would hope so, but have not heard anyone ask that question.

I was thinking of getting an X but decided not to and wait for the next generation evo XI after the first year of production I will get one. I have a good feeling with this new evo XI that people will start jumping ship off the evo X. For right now I will enjoy my 09 ralliart.