chronohunter- ever plan on coming to CA to instruct a class? I wanna say that I read on the Vishnu fourm that something was going to be setup.

100% true. Unfortunately, in my area, I rarely see this set up driven very well.


Siegel, how are you set for instructors?

Yep, still in the works, stay tuned {thumbup}

Not as cool as spending a week with Paul/Chronohunter in an EVO during One Lap! :D

Guys-- if there is ONE person on this forum you should listen to when it comes to driving technique and car set-up, it's Paul. Seriously. :beer:

Shiv

:) No prob. for the comments, chrono...
Hopefully we'll have a track out here in Utah in the future to let you come out and 'teach.'
What 'type' of engineers are usually needed on a race team?
Cheers,
jcnel.

I'd love to and it's not too far a drive from my neck of the woods. I should fly around with Shiv and do back to back dyno/track days that would be cool :)

For the race team only the very experienced are hired. Almost all of our guys have decades of experience, many from F1, DTM, ALMS and compeditors GT teams :p

Maybe this is a dumb idea, but maybe we should put Paul and Robi (or John) behind the wheel of an identical evo and see which method is faster. Would be a neat comparison. And it's cheap.

Not to be a dick but Paul would win hands down. There is a HUGE difference between a weekend warrior and someone who does it for a living. That's like taking someone who can build a porch vs someone who can build a house. I have had pro's as instructors and they are a different level of driver, they get 100% out of it while most of us may get say 60-70%. Just look at how that guy did in the STOCK GT3.

Yes, but it would be funny to watch :lol:

It's not a personal thing, it’s not a Vishnu vs. the World thing (at least not for Shiv or myself). I honestly want Robi and anyone else to drive better (myself included).

What I'm professing is THE technique and car set-up used by every winning modern day driver...end of story. They (the RRE camp) are talking about very "old school" driving techniques that went out in the 1950's (no kidding) and was used primarily on well balanced tail heavy formula cars. Pick up any book on racing and read about the advantages of trail braking or go to any racing school and they teach it.

It is especially important for the EVO. The car set-up they use is also just plain wrong for a car with the EVO's weight distribution. You cannot ignore the fact that the EVO is nose heavy. To set it up loose enough that it can be driven through on the throttle means they are gaining corner balance by REDUCING rear grip (we, for the sake of this discussion, all have optimized front grip), that means they have great balance at an unfortunately low corner speed. I would guess that their corner entry speed on the average is about 3 mph slower than a properly set-up car and mid corner and exit speed is down by 2 and 1 mph in comparison. Trail braking allows you the driver to increase vertical load on the front tires INCREASING their grip eliminating the understeer and increasing corner speed. See why it’s faster? You have gained the same balance they have at the same point in the corner but you have done it by increasing front grip (vs. them reducing rear grip). Now your faster traveling car is pointed at the apex (a few car lengths before it) and you now start your drive out of the corner. Even though they got on the gas earlier your AVERAGE speed through the WHOLE corner is faster. Plus your car does not need to be set-up so loose so it is more stable everywhere and you are more comfortable (and therefore confident) and able to drive closer to the limit more of the time with less stress. You are safer and faster. What's not to like about that! :)

Paul may be no joke in an evo....but everyone better look out when you get him behind the wheel of a ford windstar.

If I put an EVO badge on it I can enter it in the shootout right :D

according to skip barber trail braking is used to get the car to rotate in the turn by using the brakes to transfer weight to the front wheels, therefore lifting weight off the back which encourages the rear to rotate...which has been said by a few here. when done right it works beautifully, even on front wheel drive cars because i do it all the time in my type r. but your car has to be set up right and predictable or it will break out too fast and youll spin. hope that helped.

For all your talk RRE JIC/Buddy Club/ DMS setup EVOs win where ever they are tracked. (oh they've won EVERY AWD skidpad tests too) not bad for setting your car for "decreased rear traction" This from a group that couldn't setup their suspension during the OTC and bad mouthed it rather than figuring out what was wrong..then couldn't figure out the clutch style locking diffs for one lap till I directly told them how to do it. (I'm still taking S**T for this from the rest of my "oldschool" buddies) Nice to know I'm such a DumbA**...Prob the trail brake ;-).

It seems that there may be some apples and oranges discussion going on here. Paul is talking about an optimized situation, Robi is talking about results that he has gotten driving his car quickly on the RRE set-up. It still does not mean that Robi would not drive his car more quickly on the set-up that Paul is referring to. I raced bicycles at a very high level (as did Robi I hear) for several years, and aquired many bad habits that worked for me, and I still did well in races, but I ostensibly could have been more efficient, faster, and fluid if I had abandoned these habits. This is not to slam Robi at all, and I hope that one day I am half as good a driver as he is, and totally respect what RRE and he have been able to accomplish with his car. But folks like Paul are at another level of expertise, experience, and knowledge concerning these issues, and their insight should be taken very seriously.


Percy Howard