Live4Redline's DE-Evolution G4JS Budget Build
Mar 28, 2012, 04:02 AM
#31
^ Biggest issue if you have a Kia is the tune. You cant tune it like a mitsubishi ecu so you only have so many options. 3g eclipse headers, exhaust, EVO intake manifold, stock throttle body or lose cruise with an evo one. If you can find a way to tune for it, you can EVO 8 turbo it with the help of an aftermarket manifold that will clear the starter, a set of cams, injectors, and anything else realy that your wallet can handle.
May 23, 2012, 05:06 PM
#32
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my origonal thought was to eventually turbo the car.
but my budget will only allow me to slowly build little steps at a time.
i've already got way too much invested in fixing every broken thing with the car so far so im stuck with this one. right now i have removed the power steering and ac. the powersteering pump blew and the ac hoses broke.
I have done lots of research on this car and ive been luckily finding more info as of late as a source to aftermarket parts.
one thing you were saying about the intake mani, that the kia one flowed better and would have been a better choice for your evo build. should i stick to it or would it be more wise to switch to the evo intake mani. ?
also im clueless on what size or type injectors i can use on the kia and stock fuel rail. no aftermarket fuel pressure regulators fit ther stock rail and I cant get a aftermarket rail because they dont make these for kia. also no source for a good fuel pump. this model fuel pump is stored in the tank,.
I want instant power gains and im thinking about building the kia head with evo 8 internals since there isnt too much ecu tuning possibilities. im curious is it better to just get an evo head and swap to the kia cam gear? plug the oil port for now and run it N/A ? i heard the volume in the evo head is slightly less cc's then the kia,. it was like 55 to45 cc diferance or something like that.
How can i effectively build the head so down the line i can run a turbo with good hp gains (300hp-400hp) but still be able to drive it N/A as a daily driver?
but my budget will only allow me to slowly build little steps at a time.
i've already got way too much invested in fixing every broken thing with the car so far so im stuck with this one. right now i have removed the power steering and ac. the powersteering pump blew and the ac hoses broke.
I have done lots of research on this car and ive been luckily finding more info as of late as a source to aftermarket parts.
one thing you were saying about the intake mani, that the kia one flowed better and would have been a better choice for your evo build. should i stick to it or would it be more wise to switch to the evo intake mani. ?
also im clueless on what size or type injectors i can use on the kia and stock fuel rail. no aftermarket fuel pressure regulators fit ther stock rail and I cant get a aftermarket rail because they dont make these for kia. also no source for a good fuel pump. this model fuel pump is stored in the tank,.
I want instant power gains and im thinking about building the kia head with evo 8 internals since there isnt too much ecu tuning possibilities. im curious is it better to just get an evo head and swap to the kia cam gear? plug the oil port for now and run it N/A ? i heard the volume in the evo head is slightly less cc's then the kia,. it was like 55 to45 cc diferance or something like that.
How can i effectively build the head so down the line i can run a turbo with good hp gains (300hp-400hp) but still be able to drive it N/A as a daily driver?
May 24, 2012, 01:33 AM
#35
Power Steering Information!
Ok, so with out power steering the car is a little too heavy to handle on the street. Something smaller or fwd and you might be able to handle it but not in the Evo. So this is what I've learned and when you go to do it your self this may help.
A Review of my Setup:
- G4JS Block
- G4JS Front Cover
- 4G63 Lower Motor Mount
- 4G63 Upper Motor Mount
Ok so with lots of parts from both motors I have been able to look at a few options and pending your setup you will too.
Some things to know:
- The Evo 4G63 uses one belt to power all the accessories and the G4JS uses two belts with the belt in question powering the AC and PS Pump.
- The belts on a G4JS are staggered which means the AC and PS pullys sit out half an inch further then the G4JS alternator or 4G63 pullys.
- The 4G63 uses the alternator for tension adjustment while the G4JS uses an extra tension pully located on the power Steering bracket (Keep this in mind).
- The power steering bracket of any of the three motors (4G63, 4G64, G4JS) bolts to several places... the block, the lower motor mount, the front face cover and of course the PS Pump its self. On the three blocks the bolt holes are all in the same place so no issues there. The lower motor mount holes of the 4G64 and G4JS also match up but the 4G63 does not and can not be made to fit easily. So if your useing an Evo mount so that your motor will fit into your Evo then you now have an issue. The front face cover of the G4JS is also diffrent from the 63/64 and will cause clearance issues also. So if your using a G4JS cover like I am, then note that you will be grinding your bracket down in order for it to fit. One way or anouther. Just know that if any of these parts are mix matched then you will be fabbing up something in order to make this work.
- The pully for a 4G63 PS Pump is a press on while the G4JS is a bolt on (they won't swap.)
- The PS brackets for all three cars are diffrent and none of them will fit a PS Pump from any of the other cars.
- The G4JS bracket is cast iron while the 4G63 is aluminum.
- The G4JS pump is smaller then a 4G63 pump.
- Pumps and lines... Both pumps have a large nipple that connects to a rubber hose, this is interchangble but the other fitting is not. The 4G64 uses a special banjo fitting and the G4JS uses a larger screw in fitting. With a reducer pipe fitting these can be made to fit into each other as needed.
What I did:
For my Setup I opted to use an Evo 4G63 bracket and pump.
The good: Can use factory connections for the lines from my pump to my Evo shell. Less modifications to the bracket are needed. Both the block and motor mount bolt holes are gonna line up on there own to ensure a solid unit.
The bad: No adjustable tensioner. The pully needs to be moved half an inch out ward. The bracket will need to be modified to clear the G4JS front face cover. Will need to strategicly reshape the direction of my dip stick slightly.
Step 1. Moddify the PS bracket. There are two holes at the bottom of the bracket, the lower one bolts to the front face cover and the slightly higher one to the lower motor mount. You will need to cut that bottem hole off and grind it rounded. Once done you will need to grind the back side of that slightly higher hole to clear the front face cover seat. You'll be grinding the inner side of the hole that points to the block. This will fix your bracket clearance issue.
Step 2. Lining up the pully. This is the hardest and yet simplest thing to do. It could have been a nightmare but turned out awsome. Becouse the Evo PS Pump pully doesn't line up with the G4JS crank pully we have to pull the pully out half an inch so the belt will track correctly. To do this use a pully puller and pull the pully from your 4G63 pump off (no Allen wrench, or any of that is needed). Once its off, turn it around and use the correct tool to push it back on. You'll be putting it back on backwards and only push it till its flush on the face. DO NOT push it back till it seats with the pump housing becouse that is too far. If you did it correctly then your lined up perfect. Yoy can measure for a before and after but that's what did it for me. If at any time you use a hammer for this step you have already ****ed up. The pump can not handle the shock and you will more then likly crack the housing and it will leak or you will see some premature pump failure. Use the correct tools, they have them at AutoZone.
Step 3. The install and the belt. Ok now install your bracket, and test fit your pump. I had to slighty mess with my dip stick but nothing serious. Now the biggest issue we have left is the belt and how to install it. There is no tensioner so that means your doing this the janky way. Put your carefully measured belt on the still loose PS Pump and crank pullys, fight to get it tight and lined up and bolt it down and hope its not too tight or too lose. It's really not as bad as it seems though. Once its in place the surface area wrapped around each pully will keep the belt in motion like it should. If all else fails and there's a little too much play in the belt you can simply add a washer or two behind the lower bolt hole between the PS bracket and the inner secondary bracket on the Evo pump.
I may look into something different in the future but this gets the job done for the time being. Finish installing your factory lines and fill. Check for belt rub when your done and enjoy.
(Pictures coming soon!)
Ok, so with out power steering the car is a little too heavy to handle on the street. Something smaller or fwd and you might be able to handle it but not in the Evo. So this is what I've learned and when you go to do it your self this may help.
A Review of my Setup:
- G4JS Block
- G4JS Front Cover
- 4G63 Lower Motor Mount
- 4G63 Upper Motor Mount
Ok so with lots of parts from both motors I have been able to look at a few options and pending your setup you will too.
Some things to know:
- The Evo 4G63 uses one belt to power all the accessories and the G4JS uses two belts with the belt in question powering the AC and PS Pump.
- The belts on a G4JS are staggered which means the AC and PS pullys sit out half an inch further then the G4JS alternator or 4G63 pullys.
- The 4G63 uses the alternator for tension adjustment while the G4JS uses an extra tension pully located on the power Steering bracket (Keep this in mind).
- The power steering bracket of any of the three motors (4G63, 4G64, G4JS) bolts to several places... the block, the lower motor mount, the front face cover and of course the PS Pump its self. On the three blocks the bolt holes are all in the same place so no issues there. The lower motor mount holes of the 4G64 and G4JS also match up but the 4G63 does not and can not be made to fit easily. So if your useing an Evo mount so that your motor will fit into your Evo then you now have an issue. The front face cover of the G4JS is also diffrent from the 63/64 and will cause clearance issues also. So if your using a G4JS cover like I am, then note that you will be grinding your bracket down in order for it to fit. One way or anouther. Just know that if any of these parts are mix matched then you will be fabbing up something in order to make this work.
- The pully for a 4G63 PS Pump is a press on while the G4JS is a bolt on (they won't swap.)
- The PS brackets for all three cars are diffrent and none of them will fit a PS Pump from any of the other cars.
- The G4JS bracket is cast iron while the 4G63 is aluminum.
- The G4JS pump is smaller then a 4G63 pump.
- Pumps and lines... Both pumps have a large nipple that connects to a rubber hose, this is interchangble but the other fitting is not. The 4G64 uses a special banjo fitting and the G4JS uses a larger screw in fitting. With a reducer pipe fitting these can be made to fit into each other as needed.
What I did:
For my Setup I opted to use an Evo 4G63 bracket and pump.
The good: Can use factory connections for the lines from my pump to my Evo shell. Less modifications to the bracket are needed. Both the block and motor mount bolt holes are gonna line up on there own to ensure a solid unit.
The bad: No adjustable tensioner. The pully needs to be moved half an inch out ward. The bracket will need to be modified to clear the G4JS front face cover. Will need to strategicly reshape the direction of my dip stick slightly.
Step 1. Moddify the PS bracket. There are two holes at the bottom of the bracket, the lower one bolts to the front face cover and the slightly higher one to the lower motor mount. You will need to cut that bottem hole off and grind it rounded. Once done you will need to grind the back side of that slightly higher hole to clear the front face cover seat. You'll be grinding the inner side of the hole that points to the block. This will fix your bracket clearance issue.
Step 2. Lining up the pully. This is the hardest and yet simplest thing to do. It could have been a nightmare but turned out awsome. Becouse the Evo PS Pump pully doesn't line up with the G4JS crank pully we have to pull the pully out half an inch so the belt will track correctly. To do this use a pully puller and pull the pully from your 4G63 pump off (no Allen wrench, or any of that is needed). Once its off, turn it around and use the correct tool to push it back on. You'll be putting it back on backwards and only push it till its flush on the face. DO NOT push it back till it seats with the pump housing becouse that is too far. If you did it correctly then your lined up perfect. Yoy can measure for a before and after but that's what did it for me. If at any time you use a hammer for this step you have already ****ed up. The pump can not handle the shock and you will more then likly crack the housing and it will leak or you will see some premature pump failure. Use the correct tools, they have them at AutoZone.
Step 3. The install and the belt. Ok now install your bracket, and test fit your pump. I had to slighty mess with my dip stick but nothing serious. Now the biggest issue we have left is the belt and how to install it. There is no tensioner so that means your doing this the janky way. Put your carefully measured belt on the still loose PS Pump and crank pullys, fight to get it tight and lined up and bolt it down and hope its not too tight or too lose. It's really not as bad as it seems though. Once its in place the surface area wrapped around each pully will keep the belt in motion like it should. If all else fails and there's a little too much play in the belt you can simply add a washer or two behind the lower bolt hole between the PS bracket and the inner secondary bracket on the Evo pump.
I may look into something different in the future but this gets the job done for the time being. Finish installing your factory lines and fill. Check for belt rub when your done and enjoy.
(Pictures coming soon!)
Jun 12, 2012, 01:57 PM
#37
I'll have numbers posted up this week end i hope. The small things have set me behind.
Won't be worth the money or work. Just turbo what you have and piggy back it unless your willing to try and.repin to make an evo ecu work. AEM FIC is a nice and affordible piggy back.with stand alone features, normaly run $300'ish.
No PS is rough but have at it. Also with a galant go with a 440cc or 565cc top feed wrx injector for a cheap high impedance toss in turbo upgrade injector.
No PS is rough but have at it. Also with a galant go with a 440cc or 565cc top feed wrx injector for a cheap high impedance toss in turbo upgrade injector.
Sep 28, 2012, 12:55 PM
#40
^ Thanks. =)
Cars still running strong but between this and the three other car related projects going on in my garage I haven't been messing with this car too much. I plan on messing with it here soon if I get some free time though.
Cars still running strong but between this and the three other car related projects going on in my garage I haven't been messing with this car too much. I plan on messing with it here soon if I get some free time though.
Oct 19, 2012, 09:57 AM
#45
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