CJBarker2

This is the culprit! Getting ready to undergo some open-heart surgery and potentially some reconstructive operations for the body. Definitely has a lot of potential, either way you look at it!
Starting a new build as of today, one I've been figuring almost relentlessly for the past several weeks. My Fiance and I bought trucks last November. Mine was intended to be a work truck, and hers is her first set of wheels. Paid $500 for her one and $800 for my two and a parts truck (flat bed and a long bed build, whole other story for another forum, or at least a different post.) Her truck, a 1988 Chevy S10 Pickup, had one problem: It wouldn't run. Nevertheless, I had the money to spare and knew it would need some work, so she and I agreed that if we got it, she'd learn to drive it and help me fix it.

After some piddling with it a couple of months back, I determined that the motor is shot. Old GM 2.5L 151 has had it, and I had another one in one of my purchased trucks, but after taking a better look at that one, I figured that the open valve cover and apparent missing pieces made it just as much of a gamble. (In case you haven't figured it out by now, I didn't intend to use either of the motors in my own three trucks; one of them was blown, but I bought it for the bed and frame, so motor didn't matter. Again, another story for a completely different day or forum.)

BAACK on track, I have had a total of 4 different Lancers in the past 4 years, 2 for parts, and 2 to drive, one was destroyed by a safety inspection failure due to wreck damage at the headlight, plus I rebuilt a junkyard motor and ate the core, so I now have 5 total engines and 4 of them aren't in use. The one in the retired car was the only 5-speed in the bunch. It still runs and runs well at that, so I immediately set my sights on that motor to go into this truck. It also helped that I had bought the car for Candice, my above-mentioned Fiance, so choosing to salvage what I could from the car wasn't a problem at all. Between work and confusion on where to begin, we are just now getting started on this build.

So far, this is what I have. Working at a Mack dealership and a small truck shop has its benefits when you need improvised metal parts!

Bellhousing adapter can be constructed from a bit of machine work and a flywheel that's out-of-spec. 1.5-2" thick, massive disc of STEEL. Perfectly strong and durable stuff. They're also pretty cheap since steel is, well, CHEAP for scrap. One flywheel might weigh 75-100 pounds, and at $6-8 per hundred pounds, throw someone $15 for one and you're most likely going to take it home. Don't misunderstand, though: that whole flywheel isn't going on the truck. It is going to be measured, marked, milled, and drilled to bolt to the 4G94 block and oil pan while accepting the bellhousing bolts and starter for the S10.

Mack trucks have a really bad tendency to break the rivets that hold the frame crossmember pieces together. What you end up with is a dog ear falling off and a perfectly good channel of 1/2" steel with pretty tall sides and a similarly wide back, about the size of a 4x6. Some patience and measuring with a cutting torch will make this the perfect stuff for crafting the motor mounts.

Due to EPA regulations that I normally don't care about, I did some digging on this swap in the meantime in-between time, and it turns out that I can't get it to universally pass a safety inspection unless all of the factory emissions equipment is present. That's not a big deal, as, again, 2 whole parts cars. Lop the converter off of the manifold, get a manifold fabbed up and have a flange attached to the cat, run it like the S10's factory poop chute, good to go. Plus since it isn't mine, I need it to be more modest than most Honda Civics around here. The bright side to this is that the gauge clusters are almost the same, and if I really wanted to, the vehicles are nearly the same size on the inside, so a full dash swap is possible, but you won't catch us tackling that... yet.

I still haven't figured out the intake manifold. I'll have to play around with the placement of the plenum, Throttle body, vacuum lines, etc., etc., etc., blah blah blah. It'll work, dangit! haha

There's way more to this than I can put into a thread starter. I'll do my best to keep the thread up-to-date, and if everything tomorrow continues at the pace today did, motor mounts might get cut out tomorrow sometime. Either way, wish us luck!

We opted for this because of the fact that I know this motor pretty well and have a few cores laying around. Easy pickings when you have nothing better to do. Plus, this is actually an upgrade! The 2.5 that came in this S10 made an astonishing 92 horsepower and 130 foot-pounds of torque! I won't say that the motor I am using was capable of this, but I've got to go through it anyway to get the rotating assembly balanced (We're using a crankshaft adapter and the S10's flywheel due to some troubles in tracking down a clutch that was small enough to fit the Lancer's puny puck,) so it will probably get a fresh set of bearings and rings, if not a full overhaul and overbore. What are the factory specs, 120 horsepower and 140 or 150 torque? Ehh. It'll be a fun ride.

I'll check the options, we'll talk, weigh costs, --- It sounds crazy, right? "Weigh costs?! You're swapping a retarded motor into a decent truck!" It's her truck and my project. She trusts me to make something good for her and I trust this motor because I have made it a point to beat the crap out of the one I built and the two I had that weren't refreshed. They're rather robust under stress. It's surprising. God made someone think just enough to make it good and just not enough to make it powerful; a true econobox.

Anyway, if anyone has questions or ideas to solve the issues I might run into, I'm all ears. I may have to find a 1.8 Mirage with a one-piece oil pan and chop it to clear the crossmember. Only time will tell, and hopefully, that time is coming soon.

Until next time! Vaya con Dios!

CJBarker2

Been a couple of days. Weather here wasn't too permitting for a ton of work, but I did get somewhere. Both engines are out of their respective vehicles, and there may not be any need for a flywheel adapter after all. By chance and God's guidance, I came across a clutch disc on Summit Racing that showed 8.5" diameter, the same as the Lancer, and a 1" 14-spline input, the same as the S10. The description listed it for a 2.2 Chevy or a 1.6 Mini. I checked RockAuto for parts on either one, and the Chevy side was no good, but the Mini turned up. The 2007 model Mini Cooper with the 6-speed manual runs the 8.5" x 1" x 14T clutch, exactly what I need. I can get one as cheap as $75, so that sounds like a plan to me.

The next matter to tackle will be the flywheel. Right now, I seem to have an original flywheel with God knows how many miles on it. The only domestic supplier of flywheels for the 4G94 seems to be LUK, but I can't find theirs where I normally look. I haven't looked much, either, though. Just wanted to post an update. Really eager to see where this ends up at.

This build is anything but dead!

LetsGetThisDone

iTrader: (1)

Make sure you're getting a sprung clutch disc. The mini's had a dual mass flywheel, so an exact OEM replacement clutch disc will be a solid hub, which you don't want. Aftermarket disc are available with a sprung hub though.

CJBarker2

Thank you! I had not seen the OE disc for stock images from suppliers when checking part numbers, but I did notice the difference once I checked around after seeing this in my email the other day.

Did some quick measuring, the splined section of the Lancer's input shaft is roughly 90mm. The GM transmission that I have has a splined section of about 130mm with an unsplined pilot that I'll probably have to shave off of. The Caterpillar flywheel I have for the adapter is right at 43mm once the lip is removed. The importance of these are all subject to the thickness of the bellhousing at the transmission case. Instead of needlessly adding to the crankshaft weight and throwing it off-kilter, I believe I'll be better off to just make a bellhousing adapter, which will not only be cheaper, but more adaptable if we change the trans to a different unit later on. T56, anyone?

Also in the middle of a swap on a 2.2L Sonoma with a blown engine for a customer. If it would be within reason, I might use the motor mounts from that year model and truck instead of the ones with the 2.5 donor. They're beefier, at the very least. Since the ones on the 2.5 don't look to be much good and I've got to make adapters when I get the mounts up to the block, anyway, then any bit better stuff I can get ahead of time will probably be a good investment.

Until I get the project back to front-and-center, this will be a spot for my important notes. The only part that I cannot find a good way around is the thermostat housing. I understand that the Pajero Pinin IO has this engine in a RWD setup, but finding information on parts hasn't been that great treasure trove that it was supposed to be. Anyone have a contact for parts like that and the motor mount brackets? Please let me know! I'll be more than glad to buy the parts!

Thanks, guys, support or not, I appreciate this site!

2winscroll

CJBarker2

Thanks! I appreciate that. I was a dropout for mechanical engineering after I realized what it was for the company and position that I was going for. This project as a whole has reminded me of why I wanted to go into that field. I might even start to look at going again just for the sake of having the degree to reference.

I had actually looked at the pilot bearing concern before I saw this. The original 151's flywheel did not run a pilot bearing, but the shim for the 4G94 has a center hole that is exactly the right size for the pilot on the input shaft for the new trans. I wouldn't really think it a good idea to drill the crank for the simple fact that if the crank ever gets out of spec or I get permission to build this motor for some mild performance (turbo, mostly an FE mod, but it's an idea since the exhaust dumps dead over the motor mount,) any mods to the crank weaken it and add to the cost of machine work. I think that if I were to run a pilot bearing, it would be better to get it made into puck with a lip that creates a 1/8-3/16 shim behind the flywheel to replace the original shim and allow me to shim the transmission side to adjust for play. That would also make replacing the bearing easier than if it were in the crank. Just a thought.

Did a test fit earlier, pictures will be uploaded when my phone finishes charging, but the dash cover is the same width as the dash in the S10, which makes gauges infinitely easier. I'll just have to trim the dash cover back to fit and make provisions for the vents. Nothing some patience with a box cutter won't be able to handle!

This is on-hold right now due to an aforementioned engine swap that a guy hired me for. Lots of trouble, ended up eating a head gasket and bolts on it. Same concept as this swap, actually. FWD 2.2 Pontiac to a RWD 2.2 Sonoma. Year models crucially matter!! Same year same heads. Different year, different heads.

CJBarker2

This is the dash as it is now. It's not quite an eyesore, but it is enough to make me want to try to change it to something better.


I just threw the dash over her dash to see if it would fit. I don't believe that I could have asked for a better match. Some trimming here and there, this should be a perfect fit and give me the needed fitment for the gauge cluster.
Posted pictures, as I promised.

CJBarker2

Hey, long time, no update. Just got back into a spot where I can continue to work on the swap. I spent last night pulling the full wiring harness from the donor car and studying where everything is. (It's embarrassing to have to admit, but it wasn't until then that I realized where the ECM is.) I've got a toolbox drawer full of harness parts right now that will with minimal modification, be installed in due time. Next harness to remove is the one in the truck. Before that, though, I've got to get the interior taken out and get the aforementioned dash swap taken care of.


STEVEO!! I apologize for my remark on the last update, I understand now what you meant when you suggested a pilot bushing. I had to replace one in that Sonoma, of all things, but it isn't a bad idea at all. In fact, once I get the ball rolling a bit more steadily and can fix my income a bit better (I've seriously been through two job starts since the last update. First was due to being fired and the second was due to quitting for the madman I was under. Employment situation is much better right now! ) I will start looking more closely at the specs on a pilot bearing for this application. One just might exist already!

Once I get the harness stripped, I am looking at having to cut into the firewall. I really would prefer to do this before the interior is reassembled, but I will just have to see how things play out. The thermostat housing juts out into what will be the firewall in this application. That wouldn't be a problem if not for the temperature sensor being now smashed against the cab because of it. I may relocate the temperature sensor, but I want to avoid that as long as I can. There's a fella down the road from us that just opened up a fabrication shop, so I'll be checking in with him here soon. This might be getting fun in very short time.

ALSO!!! Speedometer sensor in the S10 has a gear on the end of it. The Lancer speed sensor on the manual transmission only also has a gear running it. I have to disassemble the manual trans from the Lancer to get the bellhousing off of it, so I will use that to find the ratio of axle/sensor revs in the Lancer, then try to find the same thing for the T5 in this S10 and figure it through the rear end, which I also currently know nothing about. If I can make the pulse signal from the Lancer speedo sensor close or good for the gauge to be near accurate (Not afraid to play with tires and rear end ratios to achieve this!) then I won't have to tear down the tail end of the trans or Frankenstein the gauge cluster to get a speedometer working. Really trying hard to save everything I can from either side to make this work as cleanly as possible.

In curiosity, I laid the bench seat beside the rear bench from the donor car. It looks like it will work with a little bit of careful seam work, so I might be learning upholstery from this job, too. I'll have to get that far to find out!

AS ALWAYS, THANK YOU TO THE FEW SUPPORTERS I HAVE ON THE FORUMS!!!!!!!!!!! You guys make it worth the while to keep thinking of this place! I really enjoy all the help and input that I receive from you! Thank you! Thank you!! Thank you!!!

2winscroll

CJBarker2

Yeah! I got excited when I saw the views had gone up by 25% total since I had signed in and that there were 2 more posts instead of just mine. Really glad to see you're still keeping tuned in, it gives me some motivation to keep the ball rolling.
Thanks, by the way! I'm hoping that it continues to go as well as I settle in with this new job. It's furniture, which might actually be useful for the next few pieces to this puzzle. Interior seating and the dash are high on the list of current priorities, mostly because of their current condition, as you saw when I posted earlier about the Lancer dash being a perfect fit. I spent the evening on my day off working with the interior, got the dash out thanks to some help from barry k.'s video on YouTube. ( ) The dash being freed led me to be able to get the last of the harness pulled from the cab. I haven't got many pictures of this, but if I can remember, I'll take some tomorrow or Saturday and post them. I'm thinking that getting the dash reupholstered will be the best route to go, especially if I can figure out how to meld the Lancer dash into it so I can have her gauge hood cleanly in the right place. Really, the Lancer dash holds up way better in the long run, anyway. That cheap foam that GM uses flexes way too much to have such a stiff outer shell. I haven't found one yet that didn't look beat up in the slightest, even with my grandpa's '98 that gets pampered.

If not for the impossible task of removing the ignition cylinder mounting bracket from the steering column, I would look into putting the whole steering wheel up there with its pieces. I'll definitely be searching on the forums for some info on that, but I doubt that I'll find anything. Her current cylinder spins freely, with or without a key, which I know is typical of the older models, especially GM, but I don't like it. A drop of paranoia can be worth a pond of trust; rather have it secure than have someone get a little too curious. I'll be looking into getting it switched over after I get the dash figured out, mostly because I'm persistent and determined to at least try. Worst case, I can't get it, but the idea that I think will end up working is to drill or cut the nailheads (furniture term, they're the round buttons that look like rivets; you see them everywhere on leather pieces) from the bracket, drill them all the way through, and either use a U-bolt or a couple of lag bolts with lock nuts to tighten it around the steering column in the truck. I'll try to remember to post pictures once I get my phone charged with some decent light left in the day.

Next issue that I encountered was, during the rain we got here in the Fayetteville, NC area from now tropical storm Michael, I was in my building looking at a spare T5 tranny that I have from another project I was looking at doing. Wouldn't you know it, this one has an electric speed sensor, looks like a Hall effect sensor. I spent about an hour looking through the service information I could find in all of my resources, including an FSM and the magic that is Google, but I couldn't find anything on the output measurement on the T5 sensor or on the F5M42 speed sensor. I found a breakdown on the Lancer's sensor, but no circuit diagram. The hole in the T5 case is plenty large enough to allow me to get the gear in, but the shank is far to tall on the Lancer's sensor, as well as much too fat at the top. If I can find the output measurement, whether it is an interrupted voltage signal or a frequency generated by the gear, I'll know where I need to go from here. The other side to this problem is that one is a 2-wire sensor, the T5, and the other is a 3-wire, the F5M42. I understand, after reading around some, that the 3-wire setup includes a supply, a signal, and a ground, whereas the 2-wire is a signal and supply. If that were reliable information, then it would be fantastic, but because all I could find was information on Toyotas and Dodge performance projects, I don't want to trust anything as "universal." I only have one manual ECM and I DO NOT want to fry it. I'll just as soon order a mechanical speedo from Summit and stick it on top of the dash. Once that is out of the way, I think I'm well on the way to success for the electrical side.

Reason I mention only on the electrical side is... my big rig flywheel, the "secret weapon" for the bellhousing adapter, may just be a fluke. There is a center cut-out that is actually larger than the pattern for the transmission-to-bellhousing connection on the T5, and the thread is in the bellhousing, not the tranny case. I'm going to look into what I can do and how much material I need. I might have to cave and get a bellhousing made or order a piece of aluminum stock and send it all to a local machine shop. As rare of a swap as this is, I very highly doubt that I could convince someone to mass-produce these. It would be nice if I could cheat and chop the bell for the T5 and one for the Lancer and have them Frankenstein'd together at the right depth, but I have a touch of experience in welding aluminum, and all of it tells me that this is a bad idea in the long run.

Really excited to see just how far I can get this time. I know there's a major roadblock coming, there just has to be. This week has gone far too smoothly for something small to stay happy and let me keep going. It feels like the situation Conrad had when he got the VR38 Evo back from paint and found it to be sub-par work. Going, going, going--wall.

CJBarker2

I've got a ton of pictures and information on plans from here.

First up is the donor and the receiver. Please forgive me for the mess, as they didn't know that their pictures were being taken. I really caught them by surprise! haha I've got the 2004 Lancer stripped down on the inside and under the hood, as is the S10. The 2004 has a 2003 radiator support and hood where I was trying to fix some wreck damage earlier this year. The strut tower was shifted a bit too far over and the fender support was mangled way too much for me to fix once I got everything lined up, so I just put my '02 OZ back on the road to get back and forth to work. There are still a few pieces here and there in the Lancer that I will need in order to finish, so it's hanging around for the time being. Namely I'm after the rear seat bucket and the front seat frames, as well as anything in the dash that I might need to mount things in the S10. I have a stray 2003, the radiator support and hood donor, that has the solid back seats that fold forward, and the idea is to get them trimmed to fit the S10's cab width, then mount the back rests on the frames from the front seats after the driver's side mechanism has been stretched to accommodate the armrest/cupholder deal in the back seat setup. Fix the rear seat bucket to the frame from the truck's original bench, drop in the seat cushion, and all should be well. SHOULD BE. I will definitely include a better write-up once I get to that point.







Next is the current problem I am facing: the transmission. First picture is the trans with the flywheel hung on the input shaft. The bolts that hold the bell on won't have enough meat to thread into if I turn this around and use the back side, and I don't really know anything about the bell for the 5-speed transmission because I haven't pulled it off yet. Second and third pictures are the S10's speedo sensor, followed by the Lancer's speedo sensor.






Last is the dash. I've got the Lancer dash cover laid on top of the S10 dash, and it's about as good a fit as I could ash for. There are a few things and details that I would prefer to be different, such as the placement of the defrost vents, but I won't complain, because this is almost perfect. Speakers will have to be relocated to somewhere underneath the dash, but that's also fine, so says Candice. Looking at the dash itself, the cover isn't cemented to the plastic in any way at all, which is probably why they have such a strong tendency to be destroyed within a few years, especially if parked in the sun.






Looking at the back of the Lancer dash cover, there are tons of unused nipples for screws to mount the dash in the Lancer.


I can take the dash cover off of the S10 dash, trim the Lancer dash cover, and mark the spots that need to be drilled to get the dash cover secured to the plastic frame of the S10 dash. After that, I can mount the gauge cluster and figure out what trim needs to be added or taken away to get the clean look that I won't be satisfied without.


The original vents in the S10 dash almost line up with the vents in the dash trim for the Lancer, so saving the clock might be within reach, as well as adding some flare to the interior like I've done in my OZ with a bright red trim strip. This will, however, require me to install some of the snaps that are in the Lancer's dash. I had considered using that dash, but in addition to being much too deep and bulky for this interior, it is too wide and far too intricate to mount. Not trying to make even more work than I already have if I can stay away from it.


Also, this is the ignition cylinder bracket that I was looking at removing. I'm stumped as to how I should go about transplanting this, beyond the method I mentioned in my last post.



This is just an update and the pictures I promised myself I would post. If you have any ideas that might help in this quest, I'm all ears. Thanks!

CJBarker2

CJBarker2

Update: This might be something I do again. I feel really stupid for taking so long to realize what I've found in the last two days.

After a break in the rain and a few minutes to check some stuff, I finally realized that I think way too much and actually work on project stuff 10% of the time, if not less.

ANYWAY,

I sold the transmission from my '05 ES manual to a guy that lost everything but whatever gear the car was stuck in. Perfect for me because I make a buck on install and sale, AND I get a transmission that's no loss to anyone if it gets junked. I measured the offset of the splined portion of the input shaft on the T5 and on the F5M42. They both measured roughly 1 7/16" from the face of the bellhousing with the T5 being slightly less receded, maybe 1/16 or so. Once I got the case torn down on the bad tranny, I learned that it had shattered the shift fork for 3 and 4. Measured the total depth from face to face on it, and I got around 5 9/16, but I'm not sure with the dowels in it. The T5 bell is just over 6 1/4 from face to face, but I'll check later to verify. The pattern behind the Lancer bell covers almost a circle that measures just under 11", and the T5 pattern covers a rectangle of about 11"x7". If it matches up okay and I'm correct with the difference in the position of the input shaft in the bell, then I should be able to get away with a 5/8 plate, and I can pick one up offline for about $40 from eBay. Some spray paint, a punch, and a drill press will work to get the holes marked and drilled with a pilot, but I will most likely opt to go to a machine shop once I have 1/8" pilots drilled on all of my marks so that the holes will be perfectly straight. I'll also have to open up the hole in the middle for the T5, and that will be easiest with a lathe due to its size. I can also send a crankshaft and have a pilot bushing made while that's being done to kill two birds with one stone.

I have a buddy that does welding now, so the sooner I can get this figured out, the sooner I can get measurements for the motor mounts and manifold. Those Mack Truck frame rail scraps are going to come in handy for the mount brackets. There is a chance that I will be able to get away without anything crazy having to happen with the thermostat housing, but I have an idea around that. I'll just have to get it in the frame and see what happens from there. I'm thinking that I'll need to set the motor down as low as it can be, and that might interfere with the crossmember. I'll pick up a Mirage oil pan if push comes to shove and move the sump rearward.

Also playing with the idea of swapping in power windows from my spare parts car. It's about time to ditch it to make room for the next parts car, and the driver's side is so messed up that I can't even get the glass close to on-track, let alone right. The door is folded a little bit and cracked. It won't even shut completely and needs to be replaced for that reason alone, so since it will not be staying around, she gave me permission to try out the fitment of the track and motor. The back door looks like it may have enough travel, but I'll pull one from the front door just to see if it will fit for the extra bit of clearance. It would drive me nuts if the glass didn't go all the way down. End of the day, I can still go with the correct motors for the truck, if they even exist.

AS FOR MY OWN TRUCK, there's a lot going on. I might have two trucks, and I might not. Her truck needs brakes and suspension parts. All year models for the S10s, according to my research, interchange this stuff directly. I have two frames and only one cab. Just negotiated a trade for some interior work and a head gasket to get a 2003 Tahoe with a 4.8 L20 V8. I've already got everything together for one truck, but the other one is still up in the air. What it looks like is going to happen, if this swap pans out alright and pulls well, I might get my hands into it again and put either a 4G94 or a 4G64/63 in my 4x4 longbed and save the V8 for a turbo hauling rig. (Yeah, I'm a bit unconventional, but it's fun.)

2winscroll, I'll keep notes of everything that I do or make and leave it here so that, if you do decide to go this route, you have it for reference. I'm not the smartest person when it comes to some stuff, but a decent write-up on this isn't just well-deserved, but also entirely necessary. I still don't know what to do about the speedo, though. Seriously considering buying one of the GPS speedos on Amazon and mounting it on the dash. They're pretty neat-looking.

Thanks, guys! I know this thread doesn't have a ton of backing, but it is nice to know that I'm being watched. I won't settle for anything less than success!

CJBarker2

CJBarker2