Anyone want some Aero work by Andrew Brilliant?
The cooling system is not being CFD designed on my car. It was out of my budget. We are just going to use "best practices" mixed with some guessing and some trial and error. :-)
What would be the point in the rear mounted radiator? Makes sense in cars that could see contact but not sure I see the advantage otherwise.
I thought a lot about it in an effort to move weight to the back of the car but I ultimately came to the conclusion that the cons that seemed to make it less than ideal:
More weight overall with the added lines and coolant.
More difficult to get air (seems like from an aero perspective, you'd want to pull air off the top or sides of the car, not the bottom and then use that air to help fill the wake?)
More likely to fail (more components)
Much more complex to keep air out of the system (two high points in the system now)
Don't get me wrong, interested in seeing what you come up with and love the idea just for being different.
I thought a lot about it in an effort to move weight to the back of the car but I ultimately came to the conclusion that the cons that seemed to make it less than ideal:
More weight overall with the added lines and coolant.
More difficult to get air (seems like from an aero perspective, you'd want to pull air off the top or sides of the car, not the bottom and then use that air to help fill the wake?)
More likely to fail (more components)
Much more complex to keep air out of the system (two high points in the system now)
Don't get me wrong, interested in seeing what you come up with and love the idea just for being different.
From an AX perspective, I absolutely disagree. Min weight is easy to hit but opportunities to remove front weight get very limited. Moving PS pump (~10lbs), ACD Pump (17lbs), Radiator (~20lbs), all get to be huge hitters when you're considering 1-2lbs in motor mounts.
I'll take a 2:1 weight gain:loss if it means front loss and rear gain. Every day.
Not sure how NASA is defining a floor pan but... you could take air from above the gas tanks or the front of the spare tire area (but the radiator/fan would end up behind the rear tires).
I've done a bit of research into this but unfortunately, I did not put together a nice document like I normally do.
2010 Ford F150 dual fan
Second alternator where AC compressor used to be or get an upgraded alternator
DC controls temperature controller
No booster pump or use Booster pump but remove coolant T-Stat and let the DC controller control the flow/fan speed
Vent to behind the trunk with a smooth ducting
I've done a bit of research into this but unfortunately, I did not put together a nice document like I normally do.
2010 Ford F150 dual fan
Second alternator where AC compressor used to be or get an upgraded alternator
DC controls temperature controller
No booster pump or use Booster pump but remove coolant T-Stat and let the DC controller control the flow/fan speed
Vent to behind the trunk with a smooth ducting
Didn't see anything specific to control arms, but he told me about a case where moving a sway bar allowed them to rework the front aero and made a bunch more downforce. Also, when another customer decided to run a wider track width they had to redo like 30% of the aero.
We did scan the bottom of the car.
Mike Brausen has a rear radiator setup in his FP Evo and it seems to work just fine. I think he has it laid down flat and fan pulls air out the bottom under the car. For AX this will work just fine.
For T/A use, I am planning on exhausting it out the rear of the trunk lid. It will be open on the front side, and ducted on the rear of the radiator to the trunk lid, which will be cut and mesh installed. We think we will be able to get enough airflow with the cabin having some pressure, and behind the trunk having a low pressure zone. We'll see. If it doesn't get enough flow, we have a great idea worked out to get the air we need without hanging huge ducts out into the sides of the vehicle causing drag.
My purpose for the rear rad is solely to get as much weight off the front of the car as possible to help it turn. I'd gladly trade 60 pound in the back if I can lose 40 pounds in the front. . .
We did scan the bottom of the car.
Mike Brausen has a rear radiator setup in his FP Evo and it seems to work just fine. I think he has it laid down flat and fan pulls air out the bottom under the car. For AX this will work just fine.
For T/A use, I am planning on exhausting it out the rear of the trunk lid. It will be open on the front side, and ducted on the rear of the radiator to the trunk lid, which will be cut and mesh installed. We think we will be able to get enough airflow with the cabin having some pressure, and behind the trunk having a low pressure zone. We'll see. If it doesn't get enough flow, we have a great idea worked out to get the air we need without hanging huge ducts out into the sides of the vehicle causing drag.
My purpose for the rear rad is solely to get as much weight off the front of the car as possible to help it turn. I'd gladly trade 60 pound in the back if I can lose 40 pounds in the front. . .
Why did we go rear radiator? It was two-fold. Aero and partially weight distribution. We kept the rear radiator forward of the centerline of the rear wheels to reduce polar moment of inertia. It didn't greatly change distribution, but it does help reduce a large torque arm. Aero wise, it helps us seal up the front bumper, the less openings, the more downforce we can make up front, which is the big limiting factor for Evos. We have even figured out how to get rid of the oil cooler, so we may seal up even more in the near future.
Dan
*Angular Moment of Inertia
. Polar MOI is twisting.. 
That's a good point about sealing up the front too. Less high pressure zones in the engine bay and to leak into the wheel wells and under the car. Id imagine you still need some amount of airflow through the engine compartment so it doesn't heat soak, has that been an issue or are you still getting enough through the leading edge on the hood?
*Angular Moment of Inertia . Polar MOI is twisting..
That's a good point about sealing up the front too. Less high pressure zones in the engine bay and to leak into the wheel wells and under the car. Id imagine you still need some amount of airflow through the engine compartment so it doesn't heat soak, has that been an issue or are you still getting enough through the leading edge on the hood?
. Polar MOI is twisting.. That's a good point about sealing up the front too. Less high pressure zones in the engine bay and to leak into the wheel wells and under the car. Id imagine you still need some amount of airflow through the engine compartment so it doesn't heat soak, has that been an issue or are you still getting enough through the leading edge on the hood?
We do leave a gap that directs airflow specifically onto the manifold and due to concerns about overheating materials, we haven't sealed it off completely... but we're looking into it. Still a lot to learn and test and try not to destroy huge investments in the process!
Dan
UMS Tuning Tony went to a water/ice based intercooler setup and switched back. We've had huge success with our ETS air-to-air that we don't want to change it up just yet. We do limit the amount of airflow through the intercooler, which no one else seems to do in the import/sport compact/time attack world. Most see full airflow from the front and that's inefficient from our experience.
Dan
Dan
UMS Tuning Tony went to a water/ice based intercooler setup and switched back. We've had huge success with our ETS air-to-air that we don't want to change it up just yet. We do limit the amount of airflow through the intercooler, which no one else seems to do in the import/sport compact/time attack world. Most see full airflow from the front and that's inefficient from our experience.
Dan
Dan
I actually closed up some of the openings on my bumper using lexan. cant tell when looking at it from a distance.
it depends on the package/driver. If you have tires that don't work on lap 1/2, then it will not work. If the driver cant make it happen on the first lap or two, then it will not work. Everything needs to be built around that strategy of making it happen on lap 1 or lap 2.
I actually closed up some of the openings on my bumper using lexan. cant tell when looking at it from a distance.
I actually closed up some of the openings on my bumper using lexan. cant tell when looking at it from a distance.
Dan
