DangerousDan

iTrader: (8)

I would like to introduce the idea that discussing removing a catalytic converter is parallel to discussing street racing. Unlike modifying your exhaust, which is illegal in some states and not others (it's legal anywhere as long as you are replacing broken components,) running without an obdii compliant catalytic converter is illegal in all fifty states. It's a federally mandated piece of equipment.

the site has been diligent in making sure no illegal street racing is discussed, and I applaud that because it is a rather stupid thing to do. That's precisely why it's illegal, it's detrimental to the public.

On that note, so is running without a catalytic converter. can you stand behind your values as a business and still let people discuss illegal activities on your website?

We know everyone still talks about street racing, they just don't explicitly express that in their posts. People still talk about racing on the track, let's restrict the discussion of test pipes to track use. there are entirely too many people blatantly discussing the illegal activity of running no cat on the street with their daily driver.

I understand that this would be difficult to enforce, but so is moderating the street racing stories. We don't let people talk about their kills on the highway, so let's not let them talk about running with no cat on the highway.

I don't know all the answers, but it seems to me that EvoM and Boost Labs could be a more responsible corporate entity by ensuring we are moving forward instead of backward. Laws are getting stricter by the day regarding emissions, and while the worlds pollution problem is not entirely the fault of the guys running test pipes 24/7, it sure doesn't set a good example for the site to allow the discussion of this blatantly illegal activity.

to the site admin, even if you are running no cat yourself you should hold your website to a higher standard because it's the right thing to do. each person is responsible for his own actions, and while you can't prevent me from going out and killing someone in a street race you can prevent me from bragging about it the next day. I feel that the test pipe is just as, if not more, important than banning street racing from your forums. our future and that of our children require a change of attitude toward pollution. I implore you to be one of the first, as you have been in many other areas, to step up to the plate and set an example for everyone else.

WestSideBilly

iTrader: (1)

A few thoughts:

1) First off, almost any vehicular modification is illegal ("For off-road use only"). This is not limited to catalytic converter removal/bypass. Adding (Lancer/Ralliart) or changing (Evo) turbos, reflashing ECUs, installing piggyback A/F controllers, using a boost controller to increase the boost, lowering the car, and so forth. These things all invalidate the testing (whether it's EPA fuel mileage/emissions or NHTSA safety requirements) a manufacturer must perform and document in order to sell a car in the United States.

2) From a pragmatic standpoint, blocking discussion of catalytic converter removal is not the same as street racing. Street racing results in serious injuries, deaths, and/or jail time. Removing your catalytic converter yields a small increase in tailpipe emissions. It is almost certainly unethical to remove your catalytic converter (Consider the ramifications if everyone removed theirs) but enforcing ethics isn't within our scope. "Promoting" street racing carries risk of legal action against the site and those who run it (Ali and Charles). Thus we (the staff) have a vested interest in preventing those sorts of discussions.

3) From a business standpoint, once we block discussion of removing/bypassing the catalytic converter, what's next? As mentioned above, there are a lot of mods which have negative consequences. Remember, anything that increases the power generally increases the fuel consumption and amount of byproducts (carbon dioxide, nitrogen oxides, particulates, etc) even with the catalytic converter. How long before we just say "you can't discussing modding your car"? I don't think our vendors (who are paying the bills to keep this site running) would support that.


I understand the point you're trying to make, but I don't think it is within the spirit of this website.


Side note: If you have something to add, please make your comments in respect to the suggestion, not the suggester.

CharlesJ

iTrader: (6)

Agreed, not the same, slippery slope, and not necessarily illegal. It only illegal to drive on public streets. Damn near every modification that can be done to a car is illegal somewhere. Also, keep in mind this is an international site. There are countries represented where it is legal to drive without a cat.

Q@EvoPowerMods

iTrader: (23)

What if your car can pass an emissions test without a cat? I agree slippery slope, let's not start an Evo **** here, this is America not a fascist state where the state controlls every aspect of ones lives.

westchester evo

iTrader: (7)

+10

2hot2handle

if you really want to "help" protect the enviornment (air, water, whatever else....), ride a bicycle.

there are probably more elements (autmobiles, power plants, iron-mills, industrial equipment, etc) that pollute and unfortunately enough, are not illegal. not that your ambition is short sited, but concentrating on the bigger issues will generally net more benefits.

nyaegermeister

iTrader: (6)

They don't do the emissions testing where i live, sorry to burst your bubble buddy, so im perfectly legal running a test pipe. This is the goofiest post ive ever read.

Blacksheepdj

iTrader: (88)

I think it's still technically illegal. Legally speaking, you HAVE to have the catalytic material that came from the factory. If it becomes damaged, you can replace it with something similar that meets govt. specifications, etc.
But the odds of a police officer checking to make sure you have a cat is pretty damn low.

It's just the states with emission testing that are more obvious when discussing emissions and cats.

80210

iTrader: (23)

On this subject, I would have to agree that it doesn't have to be restricted. However, I also like the attitude that the first post conveyed along the lines of looking out for pollution. I think that our acts in creating excess polution is an ethical question that one must personally decide their level of involvement in. This doesn't neccesarily have to come at the expense of power. As some mods may be more harmful, however others (such as tuning) can lean out your mixture and create a more earth friedly vehicle.

Ultimately, on a personal level, I'd like to create a fast car without causing much more damage to the air then my car would if it came from the factory (for me, this means retaining the cat). I have nothing against those who don't take this route, and I don't believe the site needs to restrict it.

However, We've all chosen other vehicles than hybrids which is fine. However, we still must be thinking about our personal contributions to the environment. Just because large companies may be causing more damage, does not mean that reducing our personal contribution won't help. It is up to the operator to decide for themselves which route they want to take. There are many things one can do outside of emissions that one can do to help out with the air... I think the site has done a wonderful job of creative a positve and user friendly atmosphere.

Evol.ved

iTrader: (10)

Last I checked this was America. It's not illegal to TALK about just about anything.

The first Amendment means something to a lot of us.

The mods on this site ban street racing talk but that's really not even necessary They're just watching their hides on a contraversial issue.

You can have my test pipe when you pry it from my cold dead fingers!

WestSideBilly

iTrader: (1)

Indiana doesn't enforce it, but it's not legal. There is a difference.

WestSideBilly

iTrader: (1)

Your first amendment rights don't have much weight on a privately owned forum such as this. In fact, they have no weight.

Allowing street racing discussions is problematic for two reasons. First off, it creates a hostile atmosphere with an overabundance of flaming and e-thugging. And more importantly, it opens the site owners to potential liability in the event a street race that resulted in a death was linked back to EvoM. The catalytic converter issue raises neither concern.

Thegame

iTrader: (26)

A test pipe doesn't kill people, street racing does. Nice try with your dumb analogy though.

LITHIUM13

iTrader: (2)

Don't quote me on this...but I believe if you get caught in NY (Maybe NJ?) without a cat, you get a $10,000 fine and possible impound...plus they might shoot you too, so that could also be a death.

Blacksheepdj

iTrader: (88)

God Bless the NYPD.