Question #1 : should the SMART system be disabled will tuning on dyno?

Seems that you would want to tune without SMART and then use smart maps to keep things perfect for all conditions.


#2 : Has the issue with the SMART maps adding fuel in a quest to reach 10.0 afr's at a particular rpm(cant remember) been resolved? There is a thread on this, but no real solution.

THX

 

#1 I tune with SMART fully functional. This allows me to see the AFR and knock trace leave a trail through the happy zone in the SMART fuel and timing tables. I see no problem with tuning with it off though other than you have to be a bit more observant when it comes to monitoring knock activity and AFR.

#2 There was never an issue with the SMART fuel maps calibrated to 10:1 AFR. They aren't that rich. I think people need to see it for themselves on a dyno before they believe me though...

Shiv

 

Thanks for the quick reply.

In regards to the AFR's, I only know what I read and a thread on here said something about AFR's at around 4500-6500 seeking 10.0's. That seemed rich, hence my question. You've cleared that up.

One more question since you're awake and answering...
Question #3: What are your target AFR's when tuning on 91 oct and 100 octane?

91 - 14.0-11.0?
100 - 14.0 - 11.5-12.0?

 

It's pretty confusing throwing around nominal AFRs since they will always differ depending on where the o2 sensor is placed and (if applicable) what kind of o2 sensor/dyno set-up you are using. As for AFR targets, check out the happy zone in the SMART fuel (where all the corrections are 0). Those are wideband targets to shoot for. On MY dyno, with my Autronic wideband LSM11 sensor, 91oct applications seen low 12s up to 4k rpm, dipping into mid 11s until 6k and then maybe very high 10s until 7500rpm.

shiv

 

This is the answer.

From personal experience and reading multiple posts by others, the LC-1 installed just in front of the cat reads 0.5 to 1.0 AFR richer than your Autronic (in the tail pipe?). An observation from reading many posts in the last month is that several owners appear to be tuning to an specific AFR using the LC-1.

On a side note let me reiterate that I think your knock buffer / Xede smart timing map with Creader and advance mapping is the most innovative development this year! The smart fueling w/ wideband is right behind it...

 

so how does that effect tuning? If you tune with autronic in tailpipe, while using the SMART maps happy zone (reading 1.0 richer from LM-1 wide band) how can you be tuning accurately?

I dont understand.

 

I don't know if it is in the tail pipe or not. In addition some schemes for using a wideband in a tail pipe work very well. To be honest I can't afford an Autronic, nor do any of the local shops have one to my knowledge, so I have no idea on its performance.

The happy zone is self consistent with the balance of the tables and the LC-1's analog output. Basically the LC-1 can read (numerically) whatever it wants.

 

From my datalogs from commlog/xede and logworks2/LC1 I have observed the difference that Shiv states. Converting the xede values to AFR at idle xede is 14.3 -14.4 and LC1 is 14.6-14.7. I also noted on simultaneos logs that when when xede reports a AFR 10:1 the same value in logworlks2 is 10.6:1. The happyzone(23 y-axis) on the 93oct SMART map is 11:2-11.3.

I also feel that SMART is the most innovative development

 

Also, keep in mind the fact that while shiv was setting up the smart tables, he made two main observations: 1. his dyno's wideband was seeing slightly different results than the LC-1/Xede (and he trusts his wideband more i think) and 2. the analog signal from the LC-1 into the Xede does not give an absolutely perfect signal, and may be off a tad.

Personally that's why i have the XD-1 gauge for the LC-1, so at all times i pretty much know the exact AFR as the LC-1 sees it, regardless of what the Xede thinks it is. I trust the serial data from the LC-1 more than i trust the analog signal and interpretation of the xede. So i tune the xede fuel and smart fuel maps for what i want to see.

but hey thats just me

 

off topic, but... does the XD-1 hook up directly to the lm-1? No xede hook ups? you feel this gauge is well worth the money?

 

the XD-1 hooks up to the LC-1 directly, with a serial connection.

I love it. i have it mounted to my steering column, so i can always see what is going on. I think it's worth it.

 

To be honest I remember the analog output digitized by the Xede and the Logworks result to be close to each other. When I installed the system I made sure that at idle the Xede and Logworks were correlated.

I went back to my library of logs and found something interesting. The oldest log shows that at idle AN1 is equal to about 126 or 14.7 AFR. The log I ran this week matches your results where the AN1 input at idle is about 121 or 14.46 AFR.

I don't have dual Xede / Logwork logs given that I have no way to log RPM via the Innovate subsystem. The only saved Logworks log that I have shows long regions of 14.54 AFR, which I assume were idle areas in the log. But there was only 11 days between the Xede log that showed 14.7 AFR at idle and the Logworks log with 14.54 AFR.

You have me wondering if the LC-1's calibration changed soon after I installed the SMART system. My car has been sitting for several days so I plan on recalibrating the LC-1 and then compare the Xede to Logworks. I will report on the results in the morning.

 

I went out to recalibrate my LC-1 and found it more or less dead. No led or no serial output, but the sensor seems to be getting power for the heater. Over on the Innovate forum there have been a few dead LC-1's reported in the last few weeks, including one just like mine.

One month left on the warranty... I hope Innovate honors the warranty based upon a purchase made through Vishnu.

 

I'm sure they will. Just call them up. If you run into any problems, let us know

Shiv

 

First let me say that I do not see this difference as a problem as the SMART fuel tables have this taken into account.
I would also recomend getting the XD-1 to monitor LC-1 AFRs.

I correlated tthe LC-1 ldataog and the XEDE datalog with the time stamp
LC-1/logworks display at 12 sample/sec, xede 60+sample/sec. LC-1 was free air calibrated prior to runs



These 2 graphs show idle average, both were logged simultanuosly.