I’ve been searching and researching the use of injectables for the past few months. I would appreciate any and all input, pros and cons, etc., on the following topics as they relate to methanol and denatured alcohol injection:

availability
price
storage safety
handling safety
consumption
cylinder wash
performance
operational safety

On the subject of performance, I’ve found reference that methanol is equivalent to 123 octane and denatured alcohol 129 octane. Is this correct? If so, why are meth users convinced that meth is best? Has anyone actually converted from the use of denatured to the use of meth with dyno graphs of both?

Thanks for any/all your help as I explore this most interesting, yet challenging subject.
Jim

 

In all the reading I have done over the past few years it seems that there is a lot of controversy on most of these issues. Things like price and availability are simple and info about that can be found by searching the forums. People have covered where to buy the different fluids for injecting.

Unfortunately things like cylinder wash, performance, and operational safety are not so simple. Most people have their own opinion about this and there does not seem to be a clear answer. I think it is best for you to read as many different people's opinion as possible so that you can make your own decisions.

I suggest you explore the aquamist section of the srt4 forums and also the water injection forums found off aquamist's site. Both of these forums have EXTENSIVE discussions and technical papers posted that will give you plenty of information.

http://www.srtforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=316

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/phpBB2/

 

Thanks for the links. I will definitely check them out. I think I've read everything on the Aquamist site, but I'll double check.

Where I could really use some input are:

storage safety
handling safety
operational safety

I think I've found out enough on the other factors.

Regarding operation safety, I found this from Aquamist:

This sounds like scary stuff. Is this wisdom or hyperbole?

 

availability, price:
you can get a 5 gallon drum of tech grade methanol 99+% at the local chemical supply house for ~25 to 30 for the whole drum
when i was living in tucson, i got several gallons from dons hotrod shop on stone, was awhile back, i think i paid between 3 to 5/gallon

storage safety, handling safety, consumption:
treat it like you are storing gasoline. If it gets enough of it on your hands, it is a "defatting agent" that will leach oils out of you skin and cause drying/cracking.
from wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanol

Methanol is intoxicating but not directly poisonous. It is toxic by its breakdown (toxication) by the enzyme alcohol dehydrogenase in the liver by forming formic acid and formaldehyde which cause blindness by destruction of the optic nerve.[2] Methanol ingestion can also be fatal due to its CNS depressant properties in the same manner as ethanol poisoning. It enters the body by ingestion, inhalation, or absorption through the skin. Fetal tissue will not tolerate methanol. Dangerous doses will build up if a person is regularly exposed to vapors or handles liquid without skin protection. If methanol has been ingested, a doctor should be contacted immediately. The usual fatal dose is 100–125 mL (4 fl oz). Toxic effects take hours to start, and effective antidotes can often prevent permanent damage. This is treated using ethanol or fomepizole.[3] Either of these drugs acts to slow down the action of alcohol dehydrogenase on methanol by means of competitive inhibition, so that it is excreted by the kidneys rather than being transformed into toxic metabolites.

The initial symptoms of methanol intoxication are those of central nervous system depression: headache, dizziness, nausea, lack of coordination, confusion, drowsiness, and with sufficiently large doses, unconsciousness and death. The initial symptoms of methanol exposure are usually less severe than the symptoms resulting from the ingestion of a similar quantity of ethyl alcohol.

Once the initial symptoms have passed, a second set of symptoms arises 10–30 hours after the initial exposure to methanol: blurring or complete loss of vision, together with acidosis. These symptoms result from the accumulation of toxic levels of formate in the bloodstream, and may progress to death by respiratory failure. The ester derivatives of methanol do not share this toxicity.

Ethanol is sometimes denatured (adulterated), and thus made undrinkable, by the addition of methanol. The result is known as methylated spirit or "meths" (UK use). (The latter should not be confused with meth, a common abbreviation for methamphetamine.)

Pure methanol has been used in open wheel racing since the mid-1960s. Unlike petroleum fires, methanol fires can be extinguished with plain water (while methanol is less dense than water, they are miscible, and the addition of water will cause the fire to use its heat to boil the water). In addition, a methanol-based fire burns invisibly, unlike gasoline, which burns with thick black smoke. If a fire occurs on the track, there is no smoke to obstruct the view of fast approaching drivers. The decision to permanently switch to methanol in American IndyCar racing was a result of the devastating crash and explosion at the 1964 Indianapolis 500 which killed drivers Eddie Sachs and Dave MacDonald.

One concern with the addition of methanol to automotive fuels is highlighted by recent groundwater impacts from the fuel additive methyl tert-butyl ether (MTBE). Leaking underground gasoline storage tanks created MTBE plumes in groundwater that eventually adulterated well water. Methanol's high solubility in water raises concerns that similar well water contamination could arise from the widespread use of methanol as an automotive fuel.

 

cylinder wash
performance
operational safety

cylinder wash:
run a system with a solenoid valve - the shurflo pumps have massive rotors that continue pumping even when injection event is over, an inline solenoid valve will help cut off the supply of methanol spray when not needed anymore.

performance:
run a system that the line pressure is held at a constant pressure to get the best atomization possible. a 10% increase in sphere size of injectant increases the mass of the glob 40% - low mass mist traverse intake tract better and distributes better down each runner

operational safety:
for the car, get a good failsafe like the aquamist dds3 or the zeitronix zt2 - the other failsafes just gives you a false sense of security

for you, vent vapors of methanol out of car as much as possible

 

Thanks, Abner. Appreciate all the sound advice.

Are you running 100% meth or a mix?

Does this apply to the HFS-5? Or only to a fixed rate system, like the HFS-1?

 

Jim, i am running 100% methyl alcohol in this present setup.

Both the aquamist hfs systems are "valved" - the hfs-5's valve pulses in-sync with the fuel injector and the hfs-1's valve opens when injection point is reached and closes when injection event is over.

 

My noob is showing. Is methyl alcohol the same as methanol?

 

yep

CH3OH = methanol = methyl alcohol

 

I've at least got more answers than I had:
availability - local Detroit iron hot rod shop
price - $4.10/gal - bring your own can
storage safety - treat like gasoline
handling safety - use rubber gloves if your a pansy
consumption - we'll see on this one
cylinder wash - HSF-5 flow matches injectors and has solenoid valve control
performance - should help significantly since I'm starting with ACN91
operational safety - HSF-5 comes with DDS3 flow monitoring system

I guess I'm good to go.