Basic info about Methanol Injection??
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Basic info about alcohol/water Injection??
Where can i get even the most basic info on Methanol/water injection from? I am interested based on the gains from such an upgrade, but know very little if anything at all. I understand the concept and how it gets the power, but the little things are what I want to know.
1. What size tank I should get? Does one come with the Aquamist HFS-1 Kit?
2. If I decide one day to not run methanol in the car after being tuned for it and what not, I first off obviously turn down the boost, lets say i was tuned for 25 w/methanol and 20 without, would the car be run crappy when not spraying methanol and running lower boost after being tuned for higher w/methanol? (Hope I've stated this clearly)
3. Only dangers of meth/alc injection is if it runs out or if the lines mess up right?
4. Is water injection, methanol injection, alcohol injection all different methods to inject? I keep hearing that 50/50 alcohol and water is the best mix
5. I read something about a fuel to methanol ratio? Where should that be at? I read that it should be at 20%, and how most keep it between 10 and 30%. <--- I actually meant the mass ratio.
6. What kind of gains can I expect with the HFS-1?
I would search it's just I don't know where to begin, sorry for the newb questions. It's either cams or injection for me, hoping its injection based on the gains I've seen
1. What size tank I should get? Does one come with the Aquamist HFS-1 Kit?
2. If I decide one day to not run methanol in the car after being tuned for it and what not, I first off obviously turn down the boost, lets say i was tuned for 25 w/methanol and 20 without, would the car be run crappy when not spraying methanol and running lower boost after being tuned for higher w/methanol? (Hope I've stated this clearly)
3. Only dangers of meth/alc injection is if it runs out or if the lines mess up right?
4. Is water injection, methanol injection, alcohol injection all different methods to inject? I keep hearing that 50/50 alcohol and water is the best mix
5. I read something about a fuel to methanol ratio? Where should that be at? I read that it should be at 20%, and how most keep it between 10 and 30%. <--- I actually meant the mass ratio.
6. What kind of gains can I expect with the HFS-1?
I would search it's just I don't know where to begin, sorry for the newb questions. It's either cams or injection for me, hoping its injection based on the gains I've seen
Last edited by Inprogress; Sep 23, 2007 at 11:04 PM.
Meth
1. Size tank depends on how heavy your foot is. I had a 4 quart which was descent for daily driving. I would go through one bottle per tank of gas. 7 quart tanks would be better for drag strip days, but i just took a 5 gallon can and filled up when needed.
2. If you have two different tunes done (one w/ and one w/out meth) and you swap them thru your ecu, you should be fine to drive w/out the meth. But if you run your car on a meth tune w/out meth, don't boost it. Most meth kits come with a gradual controller, meaning the meth starts spraying at a preset boost and runs fool open spray at another preset boost. Mine started spraying at 10psi and was full blown spraying at 22-24psi. Without the meth to spray, your AFR will be extremely inconsistent and more than likely you should run lean due to the lack of fuel (methanol) burning. You should also be aware of high counts of knock due to running a lower overall octane of fuel.
3. Those are generally the only dangers, unless you run it w/out a good tune. But there are failsafe as well as low fluid level additions you can buy to help make sure the car runs safe in case one of these situations arises.
4. I used 50/50 methanol/water. A lot of people on the west coast are going to a 75/25 mixture and producing a little more power.
5. Not too sure about the fuel to methanol mix. I would guess this is probably going to depend mostly on your tune. If you have the progressive controller to increase the spray with more boost, then your tuner should tune a little leaner air/fuel ratio and a little bit more timing to give more power, run safely, and produce low to zero knock. So depending on how big your nozzle is for your spray of methanol and your fuel injectors when your tuner finds the "happy place" for your car should determine this mixture.
6. Depending on mods, gains will be different. Don't forget, these cars are also very sensitive, so each car performs a lot different from the next. I had full 3"tbe w/ test pipe, intake, MBC, fuel pump, LICP, UICP and 50/50 meth and made 326/321 (Mustang Dyno @ 24 psi). 91 Pump gas numbers were 306/300 @ 22psi. So I gained about 20whp and 20wtq. This was also on a Snow Meth kit.
Hope that helps you out.
2. If you have two different tunes done (one w/ and one w/out meth) and you swap them thru your ecu, you should be fine to drive w/out the meth. But if you run your car on a meth tune w/out meth, don't boost it. Most meth kits come with a gradual controller, meaning the meth starts spraying at a preset boost and runs fool open spray at another preset boost. Mine started spraying at 10psi and was full blown spraying at 22-24psi. Without the meth to spray, your AFR will be extremely inconsistent and more than likely you should run lean due to the lack of fuel (methanol) burning. You should also be aware of high counts of knock due to running a lower overall octane of fuel.
3. Those are generally the only dangers, unless you run it w/out a good tune. But there are failsafe as well as low fluid level additions you can buy to help make sure the car runs safe in case one of these situations arises.
4. I used 50/50 methanol/water. A lot of people on the west coast are going to a 75/25 mixture and producing a little more power.
5. Not too sure about the fuel to methanol mix. I would guess this is probably going to depend mostly on your tune. If you have the progressive controller to increase the spray with more boost, then your tuner should tune a little leaner air/fuel ratio and a little bit more timing to give more power, run safely, and produce low to zero knock. So depending on how big your nozzle is for your spray of methanol and your fuel injectors when your tuner finds the "happy place" for your car should determine this mixture.
6. Depending on mods, gains will be different. Don't forget, these cars are also very sensitive, so each car performs a lot different from the next. I had full 3"tbe w/ test pipe, intake, MBC, fuel pump, LICP, UICP and 50/50 meth and made 326/321 (Mustang Dyno @ 24 psi). 91 Pump gas numbers were 306/300 @ 22psi. So I gained about 20whp and 20wtq. This was also on a Snow Meth kit.
Hope that helps you out.
Inprogres,
I find hard to believe that you still have such questions after posting your topic in a subforum full of topics specifically created for water/methanol/alcohol.
Go back and look at the water/methanol subforum(the one in which we are) and you will find everything.
Carlos
I find hard to believe that you still have such questions after posting your topic in a subforum full of topics specifically created for water/methanol/alcohol.
Go back and look at the water/methanol subforum(the one in which we are) and you will find everything.
Carlos
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Carlos,
Honestly I did, I really didn't want to post this thread, as I knew people would complain. I've already bugged Abner about it too. I really just didn't know where to start, I did search but after going through multiple pages and threads, i found nothing. Most were already using advanced lingo and that really threw me off. I'm sure I just probably didn't search using the right keywords. What better of a way to get info then simply asking though?
Junaid
Honestly I did, I really didn't want to post this thread, as I knew people would complain. I've already bugged Abner about it too. I really just didn't know where to start, I did search but after going through multiple pages and threads, i found nothing. Most were already using advanced lingo and that really threw me off. I'm sure I just probably didn't search using the right keywords. What better of a way to get info then simply asking though?
Junaid
Its night and day difference when I run with meth/h2o injection. The Aqumist system has really opened my eyes to a whole new world.
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1. Size tank depends on how heavy your foot is. I had a 4 quart which was descent for daily driving. I would go through one bottle per tank of gas. 7 quart tanks would be better for drag strip days, but i just took a 5 gallon can and filled up when needed.
2. If you have two different tunes done (one w/ and one w/out meth) and you swap them thru your ecu, you should be fine to drive w/out the meth. But if you run your car on a meth tune w/out meth, don't boost it. Most meth kits come with a gradual controller, meaning the meth starts spraying at a preset boost and runs fool open spray at another preset boost. Mine started spraying at 10psi and was full blown spraying at 22-24psi. Without the meth to spray, your AFR will be extremely inconsistent and more than likely you should run lean due to the lack of fuel (methanol) burning. You should also be aware of high counts of knock due to running a lower overall octane of fuel.
3. Those are generally the only dangers, unless you run it w/out a good tune. But there are failsafe as well as low fluid level additions you can buy to help make sure the car runs safe in case one of these situations arises.
4. I used 50/50 methanol/water. A lot of people on the west coast are going to a 75/25 mixture and producing a little more power.
5. Not too sure about the fuel to methanol mix. I would guess this is probably going to depend mostly on your tune. If you have the progressive controller to increase the spray with more boost, then your tuner should tune a little leaner air/fuel ratio and a little bit more timing to give more power, run safely, and produce low to zero knock. So depending on how big your nozzle is for your spray of methanol and your fuel injectors when your tuner finds the "happy place" for your car should determine this mixture.
6. Depending on mods, gains will be different. Don't forget, these cars are also very sensitive, so each car performs a lot different from the next. I had full 3"tbe w/ test pipe, intake, MBC, fuel pump, LICP, UICP and 50/50 meth and made 326/321 (Mustang Dyno @ 24 psi). 91 Pump gas numbers were 306/300 @ 22psi. So I gained about 20whp and 20wtq. This was also on a Snow Meth kit.
Hope that helps you out.
2. If you have two different tunes done (one w/ and one w/out meth) and you swap them thru your ecu, you should be fine to drive w/out the meth. But if you run your car on a meth tune w/out meth, don't boost it. Most meth kits come with a gradual controller, meaning the meth starts spraying at a preset boost and runs fool open spray at another preset boost. Mine started spraying at 10psi and was full blown spraying at 22-24psi. Without the meth to spray, your AFR will be extremely inconsistent and more than likely you should run lean due to the lack of fuel (methanol) burning. You should also be aware of high counts of knock due to running a lower overall octane of fuel.
3. Those are generally the only dangers, unless you run it w/out a good tune. But there are failsafe as well as low fluid level additions you can buy to help make sure the car runs safe in case one of these situations arises.
4. I used 50/50 methanol/water. A lot of people on the west coast are going to a 75/25 mixture and producing a little more power.
5. Not too sure about the fuel to methanol mix. I would guess this is probably going to depend mostly on your tune. If you have the progressive controller to increase the spray with more boost, then your tuner should tune a little leaner air/fuel ratio and a little bit more timing to give more power, run safely, and produce low to zero knock. So depending on how big your nozzle is for your spray of methanol and your fuel injectors when your tuner finds the "happy place" for your car should determine this mixture.
6. Depending on mods, gains will be different. Don't forget, these cars are also very sensitive, so each car performs a lot different from the next. I had full 3"tbe w/ test pipe, intake, MBC, fuel pump, LICP, UICP and 50/50 meth and made 326/321 (Mustang Dyno @ 24 psi). 91 Pump gas numbers were 306/300 @ 22psi. So I gained about 20whp and 20wtq. This was also on a Snow Meth kit.
Hope that helps you out.
I'm going to try and find a tank between 4-7 quarts, figure it can't hurt to have a larger tank, does the tank have to be a specific kind? A plastic container can work for both methanol and alky/water right?
Do you just store the methanol at home?
What are the two types of meth kits, those that control progressive and those that are just on/off right?
Last edited by Inprogress; Sep 24, 2007 at 01:18 AM.
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Milo,
So methanol and water can be ran together? I thought it was water/alky that was a combo at a 50/50 mix, what mix are you running?
So methanol and water can be ran together? I thought it was water/alky that was a combo at a 50/50 mix, what mix are you running?
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Junaid,
1 - the aquamist hfs system does not come with a water tank b/c its a universal kit and different car/ppl's requirements are different. You are only limited by your creativity how to setup your system. Here are some examples:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=284977
When choosing a water/meth tank, you want it tall and slim - to minimise sloshing of the fluid within that might cause accidental trigger of the low level switch and also ingestion of air bubbles into the pump intake.
2 - you will have to ask your tuner to make you 2 maps, one for 25psi for meth and when you want to run 20psi w/o meth, reflash the ecu yourself to a less aggressive map. Alternatively, you can have 1 25psig map, if you dont want to ran meth, just turn the system off and you run wastegate ~12psig.
3 - the only danger is when you run any water/meth system w/o a failsafe.
4 - its all a personal preference 50m/50w, 75m/25w, 100m...
5 - the more you spray, the more volume you have to carry in your trunk. Look at Milo's setup...3 X 6 quarts tanks and its still not enough for him
6 - you and i were on the same dyno, same day. mine tune was a conservative 26psi yours 20+psi. mine final #s - your final#s is a good estimate what you can make at a minimal.
1 - the aquamist hfs system does not come with a water tank b/c its a universal kit and different car/ppl's requirements are different. You are only limited by your creativity how to setup your system. Here are some examples:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=284977
When choosing a water/meth tank, you want it tall and slim - to minimise sloshing of the fluid within that might cause accidental trigger of the low level switch and also ingestion of air bubbles into the pump intake.
2 - you will have to ask your tuner to make you 2 maps, one for 25psi for meth and when you want to run 20psi w/o meth, reflash the ecu yourself to a less aggressive map. Alternatively, you can have 1 25psig map, if you dont want to ran meth, just turn the system off and you run wastegate ~12psig.
3 - the only danger is when you run any water/meth system w/o a failsafe.
4 - its all a personal preference 50m/50w, 75m/25w, 100m...
5 - the more you spray, the more volume you have to carry in your trunk. Look at Milo's setup...3 X 6 quarts tanks and its still not enough for him
6 - you and i were on the same dyno, same day. mine tune was a conservative 26psi yours 20+psi. mine final #s - your final#s is a good estimate what you can make at a minimal.
Where can i get even the most basic info on Methanol/water injection from? I am interested based on the gains from such an upgrade, but know very little if anything at all. I understand the concept and how it gets the power, but the little things are what I want to know.
1. What size tank I should get? Does one come with the Aquamist HFS-1 Kit?
2. If I decide one day to not run methanol in the car after being tuned for it and what not, I first off obviously turn down the boost, lets say i was tuned for 25 w/methanol and 20 without, would the car be run crappy when not spraying methanol and running lower boost after being tuned for higher w/methanol? (Hope I've stated this clearly)
3. Only dangers of meth/alc injection is if it runs out or if the lines mess up right?
4. Is water injection, methanol injection, alcohol injection all different methods to inject? I keep hearing that 50/50 alcohol and water is the best mix
5. I read something about a fuel to methanol ratio? Where should that be at? I read that it should be at 20%, and how most keep it between 10 and 30%. <--- I actually meant the mass ratio.
6. What kind of gains can I expect with the HFS-1?
I would search it's just I don't know where to begin, sorry for the newb questions. It's either cams or injection for me, hoping its injection based on the gains I've seen
1. What size tank I should get? Does one come with the Aquamist HFS-1 Kit?
2. If I decide one day to not run methanol in the car after being tuned for it and what not, I first off obviously turn down the boost, lets say i was tuned for 25 w/methanol and 20 without, would the car be run crappy when not spraying methanol and running lower boost after being tuned for higher w/methanol? (Hope I've stated this clearly)
3. Only dangers of meth/alc injection is if it runs out or if the lines mess up right?
4. Is water injection, methanol injection, alcohol injection all different methods to inject? I keep hearing that 50/50 alcohol and water is the best mix
5. I read something about a fuel to methanol ratio? Where should that be at? I read that it should be at 20%, and how most keep it between 10 and 30%. <--- I actually meant the mass ratio.
6. What kind of gains can I expect with the HFS-1?
I would search it's just I don't know where to begin, sorry for the newb questions. It's either cams or injection for me, hoping its injection based on the gains I've seen
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Sweet! THanks Abner, I still am going to do some more reading on the aquamist system before deciding, what I do want to know is, is the HFS-1 a on/off system or can it be based on Fuel injectors? If so, what is your current setup at and why did you stop at 26psi? I've heard people do 30psi and what not?
I may just pick up a two tank system too, not sure though. i'm looking at twin 5 quart systems.
Also, Do you just store the methanol at home?
I may just pick up a two tank system too, not sure though. i'm looking at twin 5 quart systems.
Also, Do you just store the methanol at home?
junaid
the aquamist hfs-1 is on/off. I will say try it out, if you dont like it, you can easily upgrade to the hfs-5, injection mirroring IDC for 245 or so. I'm going to go 30psi the tune i'm going with KevinD.
go with 2 x 6quarts, you wont have to refill that often.
i buy methanol in 5 gallon steel drum, comes with a very good sealing cap. I keep it at home
the aquamist hfs-1 is on/off. I will say try it out, if you dont like it, you can easily upgrade to the hfs-5, injection mirroring IDC for 245 or so. I'm going to go 30psi the tune i'm going with KevinD.
go with 2 x 6quarts, you wont have to refill that often.
i buy methanol in 5 gallon steel drum, comes with a very good sealing cap. I keep it at home
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I apologize. Methanol mixed does not have corrosive properties. It's used in antifreeze and windshield washer fluid. But, this is what I read from wikipedia:
One of the drawbacks of methanol as a fuel is its corrosivity to some metals, including aluminium. Methanol, although a weak acid, attacks the oxide coating that normally protects the aluminium from corrosion:
6 CH3OH + Al2O3 → 2 Al(OCH3)3 + 3 H2O
The resulting methoxide salts are soluble in methanol, resulting in clean aluminum surface, which is readily oxidised by some dissolved oxygen. Also the methanol can act as an oxidizer:
6 CH3OH + 2 Al → 2 Al(OCH3)3 + 3 H2
This reciprocal process effectively fuels corrosion until either the metal is eaten away or the concentration of CH3OH is negligible
One of the drawbacks of methanol as a fuel is its corrosivity to some metals, including aluminium. Methanol, although a weak acid, attacks the oxide coating that normally protects the aluminium from corrosion:
6 CH3OH + Al2O3 → 2 Al(OCH3)3 + 3 H2O
The resulting methoxide salts are soluble in methanol, resulting in clean aluminum surface, which is readily oxidised by some dissolved oxygen. Also the methanol can act as an oxidizer:
6 CH3OH + 2 Al → 2 Al(OCH3)3 + 3 H2
This reciprocal process effectively fuels corrosion until either the metal is eaten away or the concentration of CH3OH is negligible