Hi guys,

i am not sure if this topic was discussed already but if it was i cant find it. i have three questions
1. does a 50/50 mix with meth and water make more power than a 100% meth, which allowes you to add more timing ?

2. is there any benifit to use C16 and meth at the same time? if so then should i mix the meth

3. can meth and NOS be used together or is there a chemical imbalance ?

Again sorry if its redundant but i really need the help

I asked this question not long ago, and basically, here's what I got out of people:

-100% meth will produce the most power when used w/ pump gas
-75/25 is what big drag racers say is the best power/cooling mix
-50/50 is good when used with high octane fuel, to help cool the intake charge and prevent knock.

However, in practice I have gone though and tried each of these combos with little difference in the amount of timing I can run. Making the change each time obviously affects AFR so I had to adjust my fuel maps about .8 AFR points on the fuel map to bring them inline with each step (I have wideband hooked up to the ecu to verify this).

So yea, as far as the amount of timing that can be run, I saw zero difference. I'm using an Aquamist HFS-1 with a single 1.0mm jet. My lingering question is, if I'm running these different mixes and bringing afr inline, am I seeing any change in power? I sure don't feel it.

Ill give you an extreme example as to why running 100% meth saved my engine. I have my engine detailed by a guy who has been detailing my cars for years. I clearly point out the intake, the failsafe, and the controller on my methanol system. DO NOT GET WET, were pretty much my exact words. As you probably figured out by now, he got the controller and the failsafe wet. So he comes into my office a few hours later advising me that the car is running funny, that the second, third, and final time he tried to start it it sounded like it made an explosion, and now won't start. Oh ****, this will be painful.

I go outside pop the hood and turn the key. Before I even get the starter turned I hear it...meth flowing into my UICP...WTF??? I pop the trunk and my tank,which had been filled up to 7 qts that morning, has a little less than a quart of meth left. Basically it dumped about 5-6 quarts of meth into the motor. Vehicle gets towed to shop, oil pan gets pulled, meth comes running out, motor gets several oil flush treatments and runs fine later. Had I been running water while this retard kept starting my car (detonating the meth) and revving it, then allowing it to sit and doing it again, goodbye motor.

^^^ Not exactly true, the car would have never started with that much water, it just would have been hydrolocked, same method of fixing (almost).

100% meth will make more power with basic tuning, it does 2 things Higher octane, cooler temps. Easy. BUT requires 2x's as much as 50/50 and does not suppress knock like water, or clean the engine like water. might as well just run race gas.

50/50 can make the same power or better than 100%meth but requires a smart/ballsy tuner. Also some good failsafes are needed. Nice part you need half of the meth, it lasts twice as long and has better knock supressant due to H2O.

100% Water, CAN make the most power but requires you to be crazy in tuning. SLOWCAR did 100% water on 87 octane made 350+ whp stock turbo, stock motor EVO8 on our mustang dyno!!!!!! It did blow up 1 cylinder didnt get enough water to cool it down. (Rally cars use 100% water to run 40 PSI and 20* of timing at peak tq 350 whp and almost 500 wtq!!!) if your looking to run 100% water look into direct port with the smallest jets.

50/50 is the best. You will make more power than 91/93 it will cost less than 100% meth and or race gas. It has better knock resistance with higher octane and good viscosity to spred evenly to all 4 cylinders. Aquamist, the pioneers of meth/H2O injection for autos also says to use 50/50. Once you tune many cars with all sorts of mixtures you can see how, why, when and where it works.

Good luck!!!

Evan Smith

100% all day

Probaby c16 and meth with a small injector size of meth just to cool the charge.

OT: What kind of crap failsafe do you have that you cannot get wet? Does it not rain where you live? Maybe re-implement it to be a little more waterproof?


Can you elaborate more on this? What do you mean ballsy, running leaner? On 100% meth seems like low 11's AFR is the way to go, but with water in the mix, leaning it out to closer to 12 (depending on volume) will make more power. Yes, failsafe is a must.

Thank you for your complete lack of technical input. If you're 'just cooling the charge' then 100% water would be the way to go.

I'm currently running 75 percent meth and 25 percent water. Perfect for higer octane and supressing
knock.

Wow great knowledge

50/50 meth seems to be the way to go.. with the proper failsafes it seems that would be safest/increase power the most.. Aquamist hfs 5 is def the way to go!

Ballsy = leaner + more timing + more boost. This is also very dependant upon Evo 8 vs Evo 9 due to the head design and the placement of the spark. Evo 8's will like to run richer and more timing Evo 9s leaner and less timing.

If you want to go the easy way, just put the biggest jet you can, do 100% meth and turn up the boost up the timing and your techincally done. It is not as efficant, or cost effective, or the "best" way to accomplish more power and knock control, but it is the easiest! That is why its most common on this forum.

Reguardless of the mixture a proper failsafe is a good idea, but critical if your pushing outside normal limits of a engine that could easly fail without the injection.

I will write up injection mixtures 101 for a easy read to understanding this more thoroughly.

Evan Smith

[QUOTE=scheides;6177050]OT: What kind of crap failsafe do you have that you cannot get wet? Does it not rain where you live? Maybe re-implement it to be a little more waterproof?
QUOTE]

Having a failsafe that can handle a little water and one that can handle a high pressure washer are a little different circumstances. To answer your question, I HAD the Labonte IFS-10.

I no longer run meth

Rock and roll, I'm with ya on leaner + more timing, that makes perfect sense. For me, I'm unable to run more timing from mixture to mixture, but I *can* run leaner pretty easily with 50/50

Hah! Sorry man, I guess I didn't realize he used a high-pressure washer. That sucks, and can wreck other stuff pretty quick too (TPS, CAS, etc).

Yeah, he was an idiot that hasn't touched my car since. Thankfully he is paying me back $100 a month so at least I didn't have to bother with any legal action.

Thanks for the sentiment

ya I have not tried 100% but I want to soon and see what tunning I can get with it.

all this talk of 50/50 but nobody mentions is this by volume or weight.
if you fill a jug 1/2 full of methonal you are really running 30% methonal 70% water by weight!!!!!!!!