Richard, it's been a long time since the multiple check valve comment came up. I don't even remember where the original discussion was, so I don't know where to search for it.

Here are the comments on multiple nozzles.

http://www.alcohol-injection.com/for...port-3255.html

http://www.alcohol-injection.com/for...html#post17867

 

I believe that the Aquamist pump is the 250psi pump and is set up to give linear flow vs. progressive flow. So there is not the same ramp up and down that the progressive systems see.

Also they use jets instead of nozzles, as I am sure that you know. This will allow for a different output. Using the 4 smaller jets would cause some more back pressure than 2 larger, I suppose but I would not see it as being to much to prevent the check valves from working like a charm.

I guess I will have to pick some up and test them out. Interesting discussion, I would like to see more people's idea/opinion on this.

 

This one of the area a PPS system is not going to work well. Since this topic is raised so I will respond.

Lets look at the big picture. For direct port/multi-jet application to work properly, the system must have a wide dynamic range. Here are some facts.

1. A PPS system relies on pressure change, typically between 60psi to 240psi at best. A 4x pressure change will only vary flow 2x. This means a PPS system has to inject quite late or risk flooding the engine.

2. At 60psi, the flow has already exceeded 50% of the total flow. Not progressive at all. Solution for a PPS system, jack up the pressure and use smaller nozzles. Higher line pressure means higher current drawn by the pump. Since Power dissipation is the square of current. From 7A to 10A. The pump will consume from 49W to 100W. Possibility of the pump's inbuild thermal swings into action is a real threat at full engine load, especially if a system has no failsafe.

3. Direct port requires some form of check valve or an inline to stop dribbling due to line depressurization or the engine vacuum will draw all the fluid out of the lines from the multi-port manifold. A checkvalve will rob precious line pressure and reduce the dynamic range of a PPS system further. Based on the last two drawbacks, winding up the pump pressure to compensate the checkvalve induced loss is not practical.

I don't think the comments on the links have given the true picture of problem they will encounter further down the road. It is unnatural for a manufacturer to promote their system in such a negative light, they rather find some obscure excuses to discourage user to go down that route.

Sorry to be long and winded.

 

no worries, I was just wondering if the PWM-V would handle it differently/better than PPS.

 

I'd be using 4 jets, one per cylinder....the jets seem big for that, no? That's what I meant by direct port, maybe I was mistaken in my terminology.

 

My mistake, I have have divided the calculated flow between 5 jets.

The smallest DP jet we can offer is 0.3mm at @70cc/min. This gives you @300cc/min. I suggest putting a 0.8mm jet (~450cc/min) at the exit of the IC, totalling ~750cc/min.
This is a good starting point.

Richard

 

To date, all wmi makers use Aquatec 58xx series pump. The only difference is the pressure setting of the by-pass valve before dispatch. Aquatec advise the pump should not be operating beyond 180psi for long term reliability. You can set the aquamist pump to 250psi if you wish.

Whilst it is a "glamorous" to offer a "250psi pump" for grabbing the headlines, in real life, I don't I have ever seen anyone of those pumps shipped with this setting from anyone of the PPS manufactures.

So is it better in a practical sense? No really. Since all 58xx series pumps have the same head (equal capacity), setting the pressure high means pressure drops faster when flow increases.

It is liken to a two tanks with same volume, one is taller than the other. Fluid is drained at the same rate. The level of taller tank one with drop faster.

Apply this to a PPS system and a PWM valve system, the PPS system may spray at a higher pressure until the flow is increased. A PMW valve system run at a constant pressure of 160psi, as flow increases, pressure will drop not not by much compared to pump set at 250psi.

Unfortunately, most people would buy a system, blinded by glamour - same as the much used slogan "up to 1000HP" or "up to 250psi".

As I said earlier, checkvalve/s will not put stress on the pump but high by-pass valve pressure "WILL" for sure.

 

^ Thank you for clearing that up for me Richard. Always interesting to talk to you, and always so much to learn.

One of my favorite things about using Aquamist products - The customer support.

 

Looks awesome Richard!

What kind of pricing will these new jets have?

I'm also assuming the existing A/N jet adaptors will still fit?

 

I believe you are one one of the minority who reads a lot and have posted many unbiased comment on many topics including price comparison and have highlighted that Aquamist does not cost any more than any other systems after you have added a proper failsafe mechanism.

I can understand why certain manufacturers would disparage the DP application because the delivery method will put the pump has to run at very high pressure. But at the same time, they continues to promote their "250psi" pump (up to...)

What is your opinion on this?

 

These jet will be priced slightly below the standard jet + checkvalve. It is easier to assemble. Less messier to install.

If you are interested, pm me for price, it is available now.

 

Thank you very much for your feedback and support. Sunday is a good time to catch up with the chats.

 

The new DP jets are available now? How much for 4 0.3's and a 0.8 like you recommended me?

 

pm sent

 

PM sent