What don't I understand here? You asked for me to give you one of our exhaust systems, free of charge, in exchange for letting us dyno test your car, free of charge. That is odd.

In the history of aftermarket tuning, as I know it, no one has ever suggested that a logged AFR curve is valuable or proprietary info. Nor does knowing or not knowing it influence another company's product development in any way.

We asked for full logging for everyone's car, for everyone's mutual benefit. Until Sunday, we have never had anyone refuse this service we provide (usually at an extra cost, btw).

just my 2c,
Shiv

 

I probably would have no issue letting you get the info you wanted if you did not want it so badly. Call me a pseudo businessman in training - but it is my going rate for you to dyno my car to get the info you want for some reason. I offered, you declined. I could have made a pretty penny selling the Vishnu exhaust on eBay, too.



Then it is no big deal that myself and Wilson declined the data logging. Of course, if you asked for it more than once, it might be perceived as something of interest.

 

Yes, interest in finding out why his dyno results were what they were. Imagine that.

 

Yeah, I would probably ask for them multiple times *before* the dyno run if I just wanted to know the results produced *after* the dyno run.

Perhaps my perception of time is just too linear.

 

You got me. I feel quite miserable that I didn't learn the secret to unlock those wads of performance. Maybe next time I'll find the ingredients to the magic sauce. Back to the drawing board....

shiv

 

Jansolo,

What do you consider a "Neutral dyno"? you are talking about going to one sponsored by Works at some site that they picked. Also, I'm not quite getting the "Fair" part. Vishnu allowed everyone to see all the dyno runs, Shiv even let the other guy with the works stuff on his car sit in with him during a dyno run to explain what he is looking at. I'm sure he would have done the same for you. He also dynoed the EVO with the RMR exhaust and SAFC and he seemed impressed by it. So you see, I just want to know what you mean by these things?

Why do you even care what he does to the AFR? I mean he already has his own tuning philosophy that he believes in. It maybe different from Works but for someone who doesn't have loyalties you sure are particular. I would like to have seen the difference myself, As a consumer, I want to get as much info on how things are done to get more power. From there I can make a decision, as to which one I would choose to best fit my needs.

With regard to the pricing of products, cost is important, but so is qualityand support. I was initailly looking for a tuner that could give me all of this within easy access to the Bay Area. So Works and Vishnu were definitly high on my list. When I initailly saw the thread I thought it was a good chance for me to check out both of them for myself. When works backed out, I was disappointed but I thought I should still see if there are other cars out there with their stuff. But after seeing, the initial numbers from one dyno, you not wanting your AFR seen, and going back and reading their post about why they did not want to attend (David from works started this thread didn't he?) it makes me a bit skeptical. I would still like to see there stuff and see if it is for me, but like I said earlier it's not all about cost.

 

Is there someone out there that has a hook up with Sport Compact Car, Turbo, or Super Street ? Maybe we can get a mag to do a comparison of all the players for EVO performance ( Bucshur, RMR, Vishnu, Vivid,Works....etc) That way it will be as "Fair" as possible.

 

I dont think you will ever find a fair test. Their will always be somthing that someone will be able to say. This goes for just about anything. As far as Shiv wanting to see more about your works flash, i think it was a good call you said no, even when he was pressing you! Isnt he in the "works" of making his own reflash?

But then again if he is missing some details in the reflash, why wouldnt he just buy a WORKS reflash himself and do with it what he wants?

This is smelling pretty fishy to me. Something is up and I dont know what. People say they love their WORKS reflash/ night and day difference from stock. People also say the same about the Excede?

Why is it so tuff to test out both of these systems?

I think you guys are making it way too hard for us to see side by side results.

Results from all Vendors.........Dont we as consumers desirve that?

I think so, it is our money making you guys rich.
Maybe we as an Evo Community should boycott all business with these companies till they get this figured out once and for all.

Maybe that will get the ball rolling?

 

Um, he wanted to put it on a wideband O2 Sensor to monitor AF ratios.. that isn't propietary info.. Hell come to my house i have a wide band too...


A/F Graphs would not tell you ANYTHING besides if the car is running at a safe A/F ratio. It will also tell you how good the tuner is by how smooth the graph is. (this can also be seen in the dyno graph anyway).



BTW i have Never bought anything from Shiv and i don't think i have ever talked with him either.

 

Practice makes perfect!

But hey little buddy, just turn that frown upside down - you're gonna be okay. You are still getting 800$ for an exhaust that is worth 1/10th of that. Wait wait.. there is the omnipresent Vishnu logo there - my mistake. I think 800$ is probably not a reasonable price for having that logo - it's WAY too cheap. I would make it AT LEAST 2000$ for a Vishnu cat back (they will all bend to your will if you push them hard enough!).

 

putz

 

Hey Jansolo how did you enjoy the food that i prepared?? Was that also worth the free price of admission at our event?
Logging your A/F was not for our benefit, but for yours. If you wish to drive around until September not knowing what your A/F ratio is, then that is your call. To everyone else that enjoyed our hospitality on Sunday we thank you for attending and look forward to seeing you back at our shop soon. Take care and happy Evoing guys.

Brett Payne
Vishnu Performance.

 

Exactly. A/F ratio isn't on your car isn't something that someone would feel the need to pay for to see it. Who gives a crap..other than YOU for the benifit of your car running to its full potential..and others may care because they are simply CURIOUS to see how lean or rich you are running at different points. It's not some big conspiracy...no one but you would actually benefit from seeing it.
Just look at what Al said. They dynoed a Evo with a Works reflash and it was real rich midrange and super lean up top.....they added an SAFC and leaned out the midrange and picked up some good power.
I think you were just a little concerned your Evo wouldn't stack up well against some of the others...there is no other logical explanation. Other than, you know nothing about tuning and think Shiv will crack some huge secret of the reflash by knowing the a/f ratio

 

Am I hearing correctly? Personally, if I had a reflashed ECU I would pay $100 for the A/F ratio to see if my tuner did a good job or not? It doesn't really bennifit to Shiv unless it wasnt tunned very well and then he would show the world

 

Nice meeting you guys. Joka had a blast, too, I think!