WORKS going to sue me???
that sucks. i dont see why you'd be able to get rid of their flash...if you dont like it then you dont like it and i dont see why you cant get rid of it. if its because they believe that someone downloaded their p2 map, then ask them for evidence. this makes works look eveb more bad...they already had that one thread out about their flashes or something
I can understand what works is trying to protect but its doubtful that the above software copyright would actually stand up in court.
The simplest argument a lawyer would make is that an ecu flash itself is illegal on a few different points. First it modifies proprietary information from Mitsubishi. The exact argument Works would make could be used as an argument against Works by Mitsubishi. The second is that it modifies the emission system of the car, which it most certainly does, and therefore breaks State and Federal law.
What they are selling technically is an illegal product and no illegal product on the planet can have a copyright on it.
That being said, I can understand what Works/DYnoflash/Vishnu and all these guys are trying to do which is to basically protect the work that they themselves have done over time and learned.
I mean theoretically its so easy to just go and rip off a flash from someone who has already been flashed and its really unfair to these guys who put in the dyno time and money.
Frankly the reason that the flashes these days ARE so good is because those that are willing to take the time and money to improve it are rewarded with customers who pay $$ for their (tuners) knowledge.
The best thing probably would have been for you to go back to works, let them flash you back to stock and then gone wherever.
Works is also a large company with resources. Even if you were to win in court, it could take years and lots of money. Of course none of these car mod companies really make that much money.
A company that maybe clears a couple million a year isn't going to spend a $100,000 to sue someone thats as difficult to prove as this is. Plus they'd most likely have to show that your actions damaged them in some financial fashion and that would be even harder to prove.
At the end of the day, everything I've heard about Works is good. They have quality products and they have decent customer service in my dealings with them.
They're just trying to protect what is theirs and you can't blame them for that.
Geeze I'm rambling...
The simplest argument a lawyer would make is that an ecu flash itself is illegal on a few different points. First it modifies proprietary information from Mitsubishi. The exact argument Works would make could be used as an argument against Works by Mitsubishi. The second is that it modifies the emission system of the car, which it most certainly does, and therefore breaks State and Federal law.
What they are selling technically is an illegal product and no illegal product on the planet can have a copyright on it.
That being said, I can understand what Works/DYnoflash/Vishnu and all these guys are trying to do which is to basically protect the work that they themselves have done over time and learned.
I mean theoretically its so easy to just go and rip off a flash from someone who has already been flashed and its really unfair to these guys who put in the dyno time and money.
Frankly the reason that the flashes these days ARE so good is because those that are willing to take the time and money to improve it are rewarded with customers who pay $$ for their (tuners) knowledge.
The best thing probably would have been for you to go back to works, let them flash you back to stock and then gone wherever.
Works is also a large company with resources. Even if you were to win in court, it could take years and lots of money. Of course none of these car mod companies really make that much money.
A company that maybe clears a couple million a year isn't going to spend a $100,000 to sue someone thats as difficult to prove as this is. Plus they'd most likely have to show that your actions damaged them in some financial fashion and that would be even harder to prove.
At the end of the day, everything I've heard about Works is good. They have quality products and they have decent customer service in my dealings with them.
They're just trying to protect what is theirs and you can't blame them for that.
Geeze I'm rambling...
Evolved Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,496
Likes: 0
From: Bangkok
I am NOT a lawyer.
Anyhow, the only think I can see that the OP did wrong according to the paper above is that he 'made available' the software to a 3rd party.
While I totally understand what Works are trying to do and I totally respect that, this particular point seems a little difficult, or perhaps impossible, to control.
I mean, if I take the car to a tuner for a totally different job - say, install a tbe or something and leave it there for a day - would I not be 'making available' the software to them? Or perhaps if I take it to a Mitsu dealer who plugs in a service tool capable of reading the ecu, would that be the same thing? I know that in this case, there was a possibility that whoever did the re-flash could have copied the parameters but surely just making it possible is not something you could sue over?
I'm sure they put in time, effort and a lot of expertise to develop their product and it would be totally unfair for somebody to steal it from them, but imho the 'make available' thing doesn't really help.
{as for not being allowed to 'transfer the software package to another user' what happens when you sell the car?}
Anyhow, the only think I can see that the OP did wrong according to the paper above is that he 'made available' the software to a 3rd party.
While I totally understand what Works are trying to do and I totally respect that, this particular point seems a little difficult, or perhaps impossible, to control.
I mean, if I take the car to a tuner for a totally different job - say, install a tbe or something and leave it there for a day - would I not be 'making available' the software to them? Or perhaps if I take it to a Mitsu dealer who plugs in a service tool capable of reading the ecu, would that be the same thing? I know that in this case, there was a possibility that whoever did the re-flash could have copied the parameters but surely just making it possible is not something you could sue over?
I'm sure they put in time, effort and a lot of expertise to develop their product and it would be totally unfair for somebody to steal it from them, but imho the 'make available' thing doesn't really help.
{as for not being allowed to 'transfer the software package to another user' what happens when you sell the car?}
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
From: Kalifornia
I agree... if you acknowledged the above contract then you are liable for violation of the legal document. They have a good case against you. You should always read between the lines and know what you are signing (i.e. always PHOTOCOPY everything you sign and make sure you abide by their set rules this goes for ANYTHING you sign). Never just skim through a document and sign or initialize it, you have to read it from A to Z. A lot of people get nailed when it comes to contracts because after you sign it, it is legally binding. I AM currently studying for my J.D. Good luck.
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
From: Kalifornia
I can understand what works is trying to protect but its doubtful that the above software copyright would actually stand up in court.
The simplest argument a lawyer would make is that an ecu flash itself is illegal on a few different points. First it modifies proprietary information from Mitsubishi. The exact argument Works would make could be used as an argument against Works by Mitsubishi. The second is that it modifies the emission system of the car, which it most certainly does, and therefore breaks State and Federal law.
What they are selling technically is an illegal product and no illegal product on the planet can have a copyright on it.
That being said, I can understand what Works/DYnoflash/Vishnu and all these guys are trying to do which is to basically protect the work that they themselves have done over time and learned.
I mean theoretically its so easy to just go and rip off a flash from someone who has already been flashed and its really unfair to these guys who put in the dyno time and money.
Frankly the reason that the flashes these days ARE so good is because those that are willing to take the time and money to improve it are rewarded with customers who pay $$ for their (tuners) knowledge.
The best thing probably would have been for you to go back to works, let them flash you back to stock and then gone wherever.
Works is also a large company with resources. Even if you were to win in court, it could take years and lots of money. Of course none of these car mod companies really make that much money.
A company that maybe clears a couple million a year isn't going to spend a $100,000 to sue someone thats as difficult to prove as this is. Plus they'd most likely have to show that your actions damaged them in some financial fashion and that would be even harder to prove.
At the end of the day, everything I've heard about Works is good. They have quality products and they have decent customer service in my dealings with them.
They're just trying to protect what is theirs and you can't blame them for that.
Geeze I'm rambling...
The simplest argument a lawyer would make is that an ecu flash itself is illegal on a few different points. First it modifies proprietary information from Mitsubishi. The exact argument Works would make could be used as an argument against Works by Mitsubishi. The second is that it modifies the emission system of the car, which it most certainly does, and therefore breaks State and Federal law.
What they are selling technically is an illegal product and no illegal product on the planet can have a copyright on it.
That being said, I can understand what Works/DYnoflash/Vishnu and all these guys are trying to do which is to basically protect the work that they themselves have done over time and learned.
I mean theoretically its so easy to just go and rip off a flash from someone who has already been flashed and its really unfair to these guys who put in the dyno time and money.
Frankly the reason that the flashes these days ARE so good is because those that are willing to take the time and money to improve it are rewarded with customers who pay $$ for their (tuners) knowledge.
The best thing probably would have been for you to go back to works, let them flash you back to stock and then gone wherever.
Works is also a large company with resources. Even if you were to win in court, it could take years and lots of money. Of course none of these car mod companies really make that much money.
A company that maybe clears a couple million a year isn't going to spend a $100,000 to sue someone thats as difficult to prove as this is. Plus they'd most likely have to show that your actions damaged them in some financial fashion and that would be even harder to prove.
At the end of the day, everything I've heard about Works is good. They have quality products and they have decent customer service in my dealings with them.
They're just trying to protect what is theirs and you can't blame them for that.
Geeze I'm rambling...
